I pointed it out because you wrote this:
to claim that this topic is more relevant to team games.
I replied that I barely see transports for transporting troops in 2v2 and 3v3, whereas I remember it being used extensively in 1v1 tourneys, as well as other points I made.
The UC - as a transporter - is still not "much better in larger modes". Not to my knowledge, not to my experience. On some huge maps like general mud, I could imagine a niche but that's a niche function and micro intensive.
Other transporter are not really relevant as I hope already pointed out. Once more "Have you see the UC ASIS combo?" in mode larger than 1vs1?
How often it is being used is important. If it were OP, you'd see it regularly. So, if the tactic is not OP, this leaves the question if there is any other larger design issue with it.
The recovery sappers are coming a bit earlier to the frontline than originally intended. Minor point, but no real issue.
Since neither you nor I have access to how often is being used it is not important.
And I have already point out in other threads that the correlation of something being op and something being used often is no not simple as that.
If you already focus on single words and exact phrasing, then don't make up that I claimed that "distance was not a factor".
Anyway, I have no idea what you define as a "factor".
A factor for synergy and getting more out of your Sappers? Yes. A factor for making this strat OP? Nope, because it is not.
It still does not show how this combo is problematic because they can push you off the map easily, which was the whole reason you started this thread.
It enables UKF an aggressive start, definitely. Still, that is not a problem at all.
How fast one can get hit troops on fuel or other important point for the initial fight is a an important factor in game. The importance increases with the distance one has to travel. |
Maybe someone else can chip in. I cannot recall seeing the Jeep being abused in 3v3. The reason why it lost its crew is also a different one.
My point still stands: The WC51 can transport units, it even comes with close range cav rifles. Outside of 1v1 streams and tourneys, I have not seen this being used/abused.
The WC51 analogy is and cav rifles is simply not relevant. Actually the reason why Cav rifles are CP 1 and not CP 0 like ASIS is because the combo of minute 0 WC51 and Cav riflemen would be broken.
Maybe you have seen some players use it.
You can see it too by the link I provided so there is no "maybe" here ...
Once more I have not claimed that this tactic is very common so I have no idea why some people are fixating on how often it is being used.
I have been playing CoH2 as one of my major games for the last 4,5 years, and I have not seen any transport + CQC cheese at noticable level in 3v3 and 2v2 apart from >occasional< uses of the M3 back when Penals where the way to go for Soviets.
The UC+Sapper combo that you describe I have seen exactly once this patch. Judging by what other users write, I am not alone in this assessment. Apart from some people trying to have fun or just trying to cheese, this strategy is rarely being used, nor is it viable or problematic.
Have you see the UC ASIS combo? if you have why do you bring up irrelevant thing like M3A3 and WC51
So why should he not? Commanders allow for different openings, that's a good thing. Winning the first fight is important, but nothing game breaking or unrecoverable.
Transporting troops to arrive earlier on the front lines is, well, exactly what transporters are meant to do. There is nothing to prove that those 10-20 seconds you save on that specific combo are wildly problematic.
Point was that distance is a factor contrary to your claim. Do we agree that distance is factor?
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So you meet 3 pp and UC drop troop suddenly an op tactic ?
Again you in forum warrior mode. I have not posted that the this tactic is OP because I encounter it often, I simply point out to you that I am not imagining thing as you claim.
And the picture only showing that they are building UC and RRo.e, how about some picture or better video of the actual UC drop in that match ? Did you lost, or wint that match ?
Also, "3 people using this tactic in the last 2 games" isn't exactly the direct answer to the question of how often. I was expecting something like "i met them one in a couple of match" or "x out of y UKF i met using them" kind of answer but what ever.
And yes, i meet OKW kubel spam every day last week and i lost some match again them. Guest that is enough to claim st pio + kubel is op now.
Edit: How about some example of you successfully using the tactic ?
How about some examples of you proving that UC infatry drop is a high risk move in the initial engagement?
If you are interested in statistic of game I suggest you collect your own instead of expecting me to keep a log in how many game people happened to use UKF and then happened to a specific tactic (only to then doubt the validity of the stat I would provide).
Think it pretty clear that you are no mode to have any kind of serious debate so will not follow down the path that derails this thread just because you want to pick up a fight.
It is already obvious that there are people do use this tactic and it is being used even on high ranks. |
yeah, bail out with the classic "personal comment" card, not any new.
So, do you have a lot of success with the tactics it or do you not ? How often do you meet someone using the tactics ? Who are the "better player" using the tactics was you talking about ? Who is the one imagining here ?
I often try to avoid talking loudly about topics hat i don't have experience with but i guess you are just difference.
You simply cant not claim a tactics as op, require neft and keep asking pp to try it out while dont event have enough experience with/againt it yourself while expecting everyone to not raise questions. It is ridiculous.
Actually I met 3 people using this tactic in the last 2 games I played:
https://www.coh2.org/file/20183/rore.jpg
Can you now stop claiming that I am imagining things?
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Definitely not.
Transporters like USF's Jeep, and the M3 have been an issue only 1v1. I mainly play 2v2 and 3v3 and even before the nerf of transported troops they were rarely used. Singling out units is the most important thing with this strategy, and this is way easier in 1v1.
Also the impact of the won engagement is much higher, since it will secure you probably two territory points, maybe even more. In larger modes, this won engagement might not even win you a single point.
Not really the Jeep donated to UKF was completely broken in larger modes and was part of the reason why it lost its crew.
The m3a3 is used in 3vs3 and 4v4 and there are player who even spam them but it not really relevant to UC and SMG troops case.
A UKC player can have move his IS produce the UC and call in the RoRE(or ASIS) and concentrate those units.
Distance is a factor in this case because the transport allows RoRe do arrive earlier that they could if they where moving on foot and partially negates the effect of starting on CD. |
Well, you didn't say it directly but the way you insist that the combo is troublesome and constantly suggest pp to try it leaving a very strong impression of:
A. You encounter it a lot.
B. You play with it and success a lot....
Imo you are demonstrating a "forum warrior" mentality and come with imaginary thing that I have not posted both of which I do not appreciate thus I would rather not continue down this road.
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Which mean you dont event use the combo that much, yet you talking like you have mastered it.
I dont watch much top player, but all of mine friend, who are experienced with the game, agree that UC drop troop is no more than a troll tactic that sometime can work out gain noobs.
Still, i see tightrope using mobile assault with RRo.e + UC buil but he doesnt seem so be using uc drop and refer to the built as off meta.
I never claimed anything remotely close to "mastering" anything, pls once more tone down the personal comments.
Tight role is playing 1sv1, transporting troops works much better in larger modes and maps where it enables to concentrate units faster. |
and how many time did uc drop troop worked out for you ?
I personally like to abuse other UKF aspects and do generally do not play AVRE/Landmatress.
I am pretty sure sure you can find better players than me using UC to drop SMG infatry.
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Yes, i play UKF, that is why i know the tactic do not work. I and my team have tried it in 4v4 ever since the RRo.e is reworked. It is months since then, You think pp hadn't discovered the trick already? If it doesn't risky, pp have been abuse it hard, especially when it come with good doc like AVRE.
Like, how many time have you encountered it as axis ?
I have encountered it from top 10 4vs4 UKF players. |
So with 1 bren, can carry troop but cant fire out of it, is more powerful than kubel+ Stpio at minute 0?
Why don't try playing this strategy and see what happens instead of asking me to explain things to you? |
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