Profile of Vipper

You didn't understand what I wrote in my posts.
I clearly said that diving in CoH3 is not as viable as in CoH2, therefore artillery cannot be as oppressive as it was in CoH2 as well, because otherwise we'd get even heavier arty feasts than we have now.

Your last point applies to literally everything in the game. Your suggestion of gathering wrecks to build an enemy unit also does not scale independently of game modes. My whole point was that your suggestion adds a very convoluted system that takes away focus from microing your troops. The current system is at least easy and streamlined in many ways. We'll have to wait for the release to see how the economy works out, especially across different modes.

original:
"Having vehicles generally recoverable could mean some good news for overall gameplay. Artillery can not be as strong anymore in large games, because the main counter to arty at least in CoH2 was diving a tank, which in turn is only viable if you don't hand over your vehicle to the enemy. "

By "can not" do you mean it will be less oppressive or it should be designed to be less oppressive?

Yet from first look of COH3 the easy access to healing/reinforcement in map it seem that the game will require strong artillery or else it will static camping around these points.

That's not how it works. CoH3's recovery is not free, so you don't just get a P4 for your own.
The calculation (pure resources at least) goes as follows:
CoH2:
You lose the P4 (350 MP, 120 FU), but kill two Katys (720 MP, 170 FU), giving you a net gain of 380 MP and 50 FU. In those 5% of cases, it would screw you over and gift the opponent your tank, reducing his effective loss. At this point, you traded 350 MP and 120 FU for 380 MP and 50 FU. Since the chance is rather low, everyone would dive at 2 Katys in CoH2 for the loss of the P4.

CoH3:
If recovery does not cost anything, the same situation would be the same as if the vehicle had been abandoned in CoH2.
If we apply a 80% cost of the original price to resurrection, then the enemy can reduce his loss only by 20% of the P4's price. At this point you lose your P4 (350 MP, 120 FU) for two Katys - 20% of the P4 price, which totals to 650 MP and 147 FU. That's a clear win. Depending on additional mechanics (no refund for cancelling, fragility of the recovery vehicle, cast time etc), there is additional cost and risk for recovering a vehicle, at which point it does not become a nobrainer anymore as in CoH2.
These factors can tune very well how viable recovery vehicles are.

Still does not make sense since one can probably also recover katyoushas so one player would have back all vehicles the other none...

Once more you should be looking at from a perceptive of how often this would happen. Abandon has something 5% chance (if I remember correctly) while now it would almost certain and it also available only to half the factions...

I like that they try the idea again. The CoH2 abandon created very tense moments and was quite fun at times, but also very frustrating to lose because of the RNG.

If it does not work out, they could still scrap the recovery. It does not look like any faction relied on it or had it as an integral part of their design. It was rather tacked on to a normally functioning faction.

Having vehicles generally recoverable could mean some good news for overall gameplay. Artillery can not be as strong anymore in large games, because the main counter to arty at least in CoH2 was diving a tank, which in turn is only viable if you don't hand over your vehicle to the enemy. Second, balance must consider units not overperforming in another faction. In CoH2, USF's ATG was mediocre for USF, but one of the best ATGs if you could capture it as Axis.
Obviously it can also mean that if Relic does not consider any of these points enough, it will be a complete fuck up.

That does not make sense. Currently the risk of abandoning a vehicle is quite low. With recovery the chance of recovering an enemy destroyed vehicle behind your line would be almost certain if one's faction have these tracks available.

I don't like the idea of gathering points and unlocking buffs by this, especially not recovering vehicles to fill a bar until you can build the enemy's vehicles. It has too many bad implications: How many vehicles do you need? Do they all count the same? Which vehicles do you then unlock? Do you unlock them forever or only once? Why can I build a P3 if I only salvaged Kettenkrads and some Sdkfzs?

These are question that obviously can not be answered here since the require extensive planning the testing.

A rough idea though would be:
Number of vehicles need to be able to build a vehicle would be according to vehicle category (light,medium, heavy, super heavy).

Nope, when it comes to recovery wreck would only count for the specific vehicle or category.

Vehicles would be unlock one by one

answered in point 3

In addition one could use the wreck for other reasons. For example one salvages a dingo armed with bren now one can equip an infatry with bren, one salvages a hmg now can get a free pintle, one salvages one a PzIV, one can give skirt to PzIV or salvaged vehicles can offer discount to techs.

The recovery cost and fragility of the recovery vehicle will determine how viable it is and where you can use it. It might still need changes, maybe even larger ones, but I'm okay with Relic at least trying the idea if they pay enough attention to the balance and design issues it will cause.

Imo recovery cost and fragility are too few variables to be balance the mechanism across all modes when the price can be something as important as Black prince. Providing more tools would help balancing the mechanism greatly.

I may step out of line here, BUT to already worry about the recovery vehicles is kind of insane to me. Given how the game pace, time of the recovery and the attached costs made it quite burdensome for it to come into play to begin with (in online play).
Obviously the sample size of games due to the limited play test is way to small anyway.

Even on top of that to compare it with the coh1 shenanigans of the bergetiger is crazy. The recovery vehicles are not a tiger tank with a crane on top anymore. As far as i have seen, they are quite squishy trucks in coh3.

You are not stepping out of line and you comments are welcomed since they are not personal.

Timing for such changes in now since one should look at this mechanism early before one start wasting time trying to balance a mechanism that need overhaul and before balancing combat units becomes the main concern.

But the problem lies elsewhere and not in balancing these tracks.

The mechanism is the problem since it very difficult to balance especially across all modes where the number of wreck are vary greatly.

Imo the recovery trucks will either be pointless or OP under certain circumstances like being able to recover super heavy tanks.

With my suggestion balancing the performance of the unit will become easier while keeping a unique mechanism.

lol quoting himself and saying "I am not going to follow you down this rabbit hole since you are making things up in order to discredit me."


self awareness

Is there a reason you trying to derail this thread or has just become a habbit of yours?