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Thread: Penals op10 May 2017, 17:51 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 17:40 PMle_saucisson_masque thank you ! you had 6 MONTH to get your shit up and tell to the balance team what you think about penal. if you couldn't do it in 6 month, i seriously doubt you can do it now, i mean speaking on balance with real arguments, stats and maybe even a replay. so here is my point, again, no one gives a shit about your "issue" anymore. With some luck, they could be allowed to keep working on balance and so can't waste another 6 month testing penals because you were "too slow" (nothing insulting) I and other members of the community, actually pointed out the problems that will come from: 1) USF mortar 2) Penals X2 far DPS 3) VG ST44 in the feedback for the June patch of 2016 to Relic (who is the one the implement the changes and not modders), but they decided to go ahead anyway. So feed back was there a year ago Relic simply choose not to listen. So it is not actually an issue of not giving feedback. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 17:17 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 17:08 PMMaret Yes, let's make all infantry the same but with differents skins? How you imagine that will be works? You want to tone down ALL CORE infantry to near Cons level? DPS it's only one side of problem, another sides: 1. Late game scaling 2. Side upgrades (weapon and grenades) 3. Synergy with other faction units 4. Uniqueness of each faction design RNG is part of game, we don't play in Starcraft 2, where all characteristics are pure maths and digits. You mistake that you see soviets as WFA and want see their infantry like WFA infantry (or see WFA like EFA, that the same thing). Soviets and OST have old design. Especially soviets where all units good not one by one, but only and ALWAYS with other units together. If you play for USF you can build riflemens with zooks and bars, or build tommies with brens and piats. But for soviet you need build cons+maxim+zis3 and use Merge and Hoora to support them, it's totally different approach. And the EFA are far better designed than WFA, and that is why its the WFA that need to move closer to EFA and not the other way round. In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 17:14 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 16:52 PMEsxile This thread is about Penals but you're arguing over IS and RM squads being superior than Grenadiers. Then when I ask you what do we do about the rest, pof, the thread is again about Penals only. Ok you want the long answer: Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 15:20 PMEsxile In that case, should we tone down the HMG42 to the new maxim level cuz as mentioned the difference between grens and other, the maxim requires tech. The tech cost of maxim compared to hmg42 does not mean much. Its 160/20 and if one wanted to calculate that Grenadier should be far superior from what they are now because they have 80/10 cost tech cost. Ostheer would be actually better of, if grenadiers swapped place with the Hmg42 and where able to build mainline infantry from base building like the other factions. Should the hmg42 be toned? "no" the maxim need to have aim time fixed and then will see. Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 15:20 PMEsxile How do we match the Ostheer sniper with the inexistant USF sniper? The same way OKW deal vs snipers. The Ostheer sniper was hit hard by the changes to camo (and rightfully). He might need a slight reduction to ROF but that about it. Unless some one want to redesign sniper and have all of them with reduced ROF and a lower price. Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 15:20 PMEsxile How do we match Pzgrenadiers with USF/Sov/Brit inexistant stock elite squads? Soviet have stock elite infantry they are called Penals. Pg are hardly cost efficient because they need to mid range to effective and bleed like crazy. On top of that hey have high tech cost and come late. Yet my suggestion would be to lower their price to 280-300 and have them spawn with 2 ST44 +2 98k and be allow to upgrade 1+1 shreck and the shreck repalcing the St44. Now can we move back to Penals and the suggestions made in Op? In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 16:27 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 15:47 PMMaret Esxile just trying to show, that to balanced ALL factions to soviets it's more harder way then balanced soviets to other. More easier it's try to find decision for soviets that will be working. Because all other factions have some (more or less, but it has) balance. Only soviets drop out of this, with their falling only to T1 or T2 meta opening with every new patch (that only show how bad balanced faction). And you are assuming that Soviet actually are weaker when then did better the most other faction in last tournament. I have explained to you several times that having DPS similar to that of Riflemen, Penal and Tommies makes the game RNG instead tactical so it these units that need toning down and to Conscript to buffed to their level. I have little to add to this point feel free to have different opinion. In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 15:39 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 15:20 PMEsxile In that case, should we tone down the HMG42 to the new maxim level cuz as mentioned the difference between grens and other, the maxim requires tech. How do we match the Ostheer sniper with the inexistant USF sniper? How do we match Pzgrenadiers with USF/Sov/Brit inexistant stock elite squads? You are opening several other issues. this thread is about Penals mostly. The sort response is any of the unit you mentioned might need an adjustment but it only a slight one. In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 14:01 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 13:05 PMMaret Tone down lethality not solve problem. If you will do this it more increase appealence of cheap spammable units like osttrupens (because they will start live longer) and also will increased role of power AI weapon like demo, mortars, arillery and so on. If you will tone down all AI weapon, it will do spammable AT squads with shrecks, bazookas and piats (and speed tanks to crush this blobs...). You can't change one thing and don't cahnge other, especially if you looking on lethality of infantry in game. It's dead loop like i said earlier. It does solves the problem. Infantry fights where mostly balanced after the September patch as I explained to you. In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 14:00 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 13:01 PM__deleted__ Yea I know it´s not the problem of conscripts that every unit in oppesed WFA faction beats them (volks, spios, falls, JLI, obers ...). I know OKW unit need to be toned down to OST and SOV levels, not the other way. But please don´t take this argument as "conscripts are currently fine". Because they´re not Having a simultaneous conversation with allot people complicates things. Conscripts could use some changes but they do not need significant buffs. I for instance would try: TS to 1 TS bonus similar to tommie when in cover a timed ability that cost mu and increase accuracy replacement of PPsh with SVT (prebuff level) increase range of AT greande Replace molotv with a nomrla grenade move molotov and ourah to penals (as a ability that scale with vet) Now conscripts are a defensive infantry and Penal an offensive one. In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 13:53 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 13:16 PMTickTack You've obviously never got an LMG gren above Vet zero. Nor used a rifle nade. Actually if you HAD used a rifle nade, you'd have got a vetted gren, so... The Lmg grenadier is a unit that has more tech cost than bar riflemen or bren tommie and he lose to both. He will also lose to Penal that walk right up to him. Grenadier with out hmg 42 or 251 support do not do much. In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 12:54 PM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 12:24 PMEsxile OK and then what do we do with the balance? Tone down the lethality of some unit. Grenadier used to be the benchmark and now it is a unit is lackluster. In: Lobby
Thread: Redesign Penal battalions10 May 2017, 10:52 AM Jump back to quoted post10 May 2017, 10:41 AM__deleted__ Or build mg42 to not waste any build time ? (except for pios of course) And buildig cons for soviet isnt an option. They will only be setback later. Cons are so useless right now According to you conscripts are useless but they saw allot of action in the tournament where Soviets did above average. According to Mr.Smith (and the Top players) it Penal that is not worth building. The problem lies with other infantry and not with Conscripts. In: Lobby