Never seen this before, can satchels explode before their timer?
yes they tend to explode if the entity using them dies.
..
Problem that VG have incediary nade.
...
And if you actually read my post you would see that I have pointed out numerous times that mainline infantry should not have incendiary grenades. (Which by the way conscripts also have and are getting buffed).
(At the same time cloaked units should have DOT weapon and not demolition nukes)
If one remove Inc. Grenades from VG (as one should), one has to give other tools to them for dealing with garrison.
But this thread is about small arm fire and DPS, not grenades.
I actually have pointed out numerous times that half the problem conscripts have come from the VG ST44 upgrade...
If one want to get personal one should better learn more about that person before making comments...
If one actually read my post one will see that did propose any nerf to conscripts but I do think than an almost x140% buff to DPS even if at only 1 range will cause issues.
I also don't see why a units equipped with a bolt action rifle should "ourah" to range 10 to be effective.
DPS at range 0-10-20-30
mosin_nagant_rifle_conscript_mp--3.44--2.52--1.96--1.22
Patch
mosin_nagant_rifle_conscript_mp--3.43--3.43--2.12--1.35
conscript_ppsh-41_sub_machine_gun_mp--10.82--10.82--1.09--0.20
Patch
conscript_ppsh-41_sub_machine_gun_mp--9.84--9.84--0.99--0.18
PPSh squad DPS--42.78--40.02--9.14--4.26
Patch
PPSh squad DPS--39.79--39.79--9.31--3.84
Soviet infantry changes, my analysis:
Show Spoiler Changes to DPS in translate in numbers
New mosin around x100% (range 0) x136% (range 10) x108% (range 20) x110% (range 30)
New PPsh around x91% all ranges.
That roughly translates for a PPsh conscript
x93% (range 0) x99% (range 10) x101.94% (range 20) x107% (range 30).
Although the changes in Mosin other ranges are not problematic at range 10 things become very problematic.
At range 10-15 a conscripts squad out DPS VG, Grenadier and even pioneers while continuing to have more EHP. Combined with ourah it will create many problems. If Conscripts are to become a close quarter unit they should change weapon type and lose or have ourah redesigned.
Although moving near range to 10 is a step in the correct direction and should be implement to all bolt action/ semi auto weapons giving a bigger advantage to CQ weapons the DPS value at range 10 is simply too high.
The PPSH on the other hand should follow the exact opposite root and have its near range moved from 10 to 0.
Ideally the conscript should not have to mix weapon with different optimum ranges (like ppsh and bolt action) and have the doctrinal ability either give them 6 ppsh or a number SVTs.
The merge of the abilities at the same cost and time to research is totally uncalled for and will make human wave tactics even more effective. Soviet have cheap teching, flexible teching and a the widest variety of doctrinal solution. If this change makes to game it should be countered weight by step like:
Increasing research time
and/or increasing cost of T1
and/or adding a tech cost to Penal satchel
and/or adding a cost to PTRS and AT satchel (soviet seem to the only faction that get stock AT weapons with no tech cost).
Show Spoiler Penal
The Penal Squad has received some minor adjustments to bring it more in line with its cost and to reduce its effectiveness as a powerful generalist unit by offering a more distinct choice between anti-infantry and anti-vehicle.
Since the majority of the community agrees that Penal are OP why don't we actually nerf the unit where it actually OP and not beat around the bush?
In the first major overhaul it was claimed that Penal had to be very good AI because T1 did not provide AT capabilities, it proved disastrous. In the second major overhaul Penal got AT capabilities but their AI (for its time-frame) remained over the top but it was argued that it need to that high because conscripts where UP. In this patch Conscripts are buffed yet the DPS of the Penals remains over the TOP. Why? The main problem with Penal is their DPS for their time frame simply lowered down.
The moving accuracy nerf is correct still is not anywhere near enough. The reinforcement cost will have minimal impact since it can easily be bypassed by merge. The XP value is correct but the vet bonuses continue to remain over top for a unit that arrive so early and has so much DPS. The satchel charge changes are correct but still not enough.
PTRS Ready Aim Time reduced from 2 to 1.25 (affects all PTRS variants)
Since you are changing the PTRS why not fix the inconsistency across the different version.
Even better why not redesign the weapon as dedicated AT weapon that (maybe in some version) has a active mu ability allowing to be used vs infantry.
IMO KV-2 have 2 problem :
I would add some more, the very big minimum range, the sight penalty, the accuracy penalty when switching modes.
The fact that it can fire trough blocker thou make it very good in some maps.
Warning a wall text coming, my apologies.
DBP Goals
Tune select underused / undervalued commanders to increase and diversify the number of viable strategies available in automatch (More info to come - to be included in V2 of the DBP Mod)"
Show Spoiler As far as I understand 2 commander per faction will touched. That makes some since small changes are easier to evaluated but since there is a very large number of commanders and the process will take "for ever" I have an additional suggestion.
Stick to 2 commander but also fix abilities that are completely UP or OP or not consistent across the faction and are "easy" fixes.
Here a couple of to serve as an example:
Armored vehicles detection (Soviets) "vehicle detection" from shrek storm-troopers and detection from Tank Hunter IS.
1) These performance 3 abilities is completely inconstant. ATIS get the ability always on for free, storm-troopers need a 75 mu upgrade and then pay 30 mu per use, while Soviet lose a commander ability slotand have to pay mu to use. One has to change these 3 abilities to be consistent and useful according to "cost" with the Soviet being the strongest, then wer then UKF.
For example:
Soviet always on up to range 35 and up to 70 when activated
Wer always on up to range 40 and in addition providing the hammer "vehicle trucking" affect for the schreck storm-trooper
UKF always on up to range 35 up to 70 when activated for 10 MU cost.
2) "Heavy fortification" (OKW), "Trenches"/"defensive fortification" Ostheer, "Tank Traps" Soviets, "Riflemen field defenses".
Again the abilities are completely inconstant.
Suggestions:
Trenches/tank traps Ostheer merged a single ability and moved to CP1 (maybe 0)
"Tank Traps" PMD-6M AT mine merged to a single ability and moved to CP1 (maybe 0)
"Riflemen Field defenses" renamed to "Field defenses" move to CP 1, riflemen can not build fighting positions, sandbags and mines moved to RE.
3) "Recon planes". Either ostheer planes detect invisible also or non of them detect invisible.
4) "Mark Target" Soviet and "Coordinated fire" Com Pan are very powerful abilities especially in team games and could easily replace the damage penalty with an armor penalty making them less powerful but still useful.
Repair Speeds
Show Spoiler USF Rear Echelon & British Royal Engineers:
Vet 0 repair speed reduced from 2 to 1.6
Vet 2 repair bonus decreased from 1 to 0.5
Heavy Sapper upgrade (sappers only) decreased repair speed from 2 to 0.525
Sturmpioneers
Vet 0 repair decreased from 3 to 2
Although these changes are great I fill the need to point some other inconsistencies and issues.
1) WFA can either have a weapon (flamer) or sweeper that imo should apply to all engineers especially since EFA are more better fighting units.
Suggestion: sweeper not takes all weapon slots.
2) The weapon that UKF/USF can pick allows them to vet to fast becoming both very good both at fighting and at repairing.
Suggestion: remove repair bonuses from engineer type units and tie them to minesweeper upgrade. Allow vetting from repairing if needed. Now engineer type units have 2 separated roles, either support fighting units or repair units.
3) Heavy sappers, (since change in repair speed) one can remove the "posture" movement penalty.
4) Fix the ability of engineer type units to equip 2-3 lmg/weapons like heavy sapper, flamer/bar, Lmg bar.
5) Pop. SP have a Pop 9 that makes them difficult to field. With the changes to repair speed to Pop need to go down to 6-7.
To compensate one could replace 2 STG with 2 mp40 or 2 g43 (and maybe lower price to 270-280).
Forward Retreat Points
Show Spoiler * UKF FRP requires Company Command Post.
* OKW FRP requires either a Mechanized or Schwerer Panzer Headquarters established.
* OKW Battlegroup unable to reinforce if cut-off from friendly territory.
* Reinforcement cost (global) increased by 20% while FRP ability is active
* 2 minute cooldown when FRP ability is deactivated
* 30 sec cooldown when FRP ability is activated (i.e., can't be deactivated for 30s after being turned on)
Although these changes are in a right direction the fail to take into account the differences between FRP across the faction ending up to heart OKW more than other faction who will now have even less reason to place a medic truck outside of base.
Suggestions:
1) Decrease cost of FRP upgrade from 300 (150-200).
Reasons:
Medic truck with healing and FRP is simply too expensive to risk since the returned from the upgrade is lowered by the time it becomes available.
2) Allow other healing sources since OKW are the only faction that need to reinforce and heal at the same place.
For instance medic upgrade could provide also medics in base or if medic truck is destroyed the next ones could come with medic automatically.
Fuel and Munition Caches
Show Spoiler * MP cost increased from 200 to 250
Although the change is a right direction it is simply not effective.
Increasing price will simply make caches more rare in 1vs1 2vs2 but they will continue to dominate 3vs3 or 4vs4.
Suggestion:
Reduce the return from caches per number of players.
Reason:
As an investment cashes pay beck by the value of resources it has returned, thus it because better with number of players. A caches in 4vs4 game will have the same return in 1/4 of the time than in 1vs1. That is the problem that is what should be fixed.
OKW
Kubelwagon
Show Spoiler To decrease the manpower bleed the Kubelwagon can inflict in the early game (primarily vs USF), we have made the following changes:
Decrease rear armor from 4.5 to 1.6
Decrease front armor from 4.5 to 3.5
Increase health form 190 to 240
Although the change is in a good direction it makes little sense. Bleed is reduce by reducing DPS and not making a weak unit weaker.
Suggestion: Reduce the far DPS and remove scatter hits (from all small arm weapon including bar/ST44).
Jagdtiger
Show Spoiler To decrease the on field dominance of the Jagdtiger against Allied tanks, the unit has received the following changes. To help keep the unit useful vs infantry, the Supporting Fire ability has received some performance enhancements.
Since JT is not stunned from shot replace vet 5 bonus with something actually useful.
"Panther V
Show Spoiler As arguably thebest non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2, we felt that the unit offered too much benefit to spam and was increasingly dominate when produced in numbers. To encourage players to diversify their late game tech, we have made the following changes:
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Decreased moving accuracy from 0.65 to 0.5
Increased moving scatter from 1.7 to 2
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed (also affects command Panther)"
First the "best non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2" does not actually mean much since not many units fit the category including the Panther...Compared to what? KT, Churchill, Comet.
The Panther is not main battle tank since its main gun is bad vs soft targets. It is a counter to heavy tanks and it cost as much as most of them.
"spamming" a 200 fuel tank can easily be solved by reducing the return of fuel from caches in larger mode nerfing a specialized unit that is struggling in small mode in not the right direction.
The effectiveness of Panther is already nerfed by the changes in repair, the increase of HP of the jackson and the nerfs to Elephant/JT.
Increasing pop cap to 18 is simply wrong when the tanks it meant to counter have a pop 19 (KV-2,IS-2), Pershing has a pop of 16 and other heavy TD have much lower FF, M36 14 and Su-85 12!!!!
Decreasing accuracy/scatter is also in the wrong direction since the unit is out-ranged and has to be on the move to survive.
Simply removing the 10% armor bonus is again wrong (as it was with extra rifle grenade range) because it mess with the value of the vetted unit. If the bonus is not suited it should be replaced with something else and not simply removed. In addition Panther is a unit with high XP value and disproportional low DPS making hard to vet.
Combat Blitz
+100% accuracy bonus reduced to +20% (affects all OKW vehicles)
Although CB should be toned down a horizontal to all OKW tank is not needed, the ability should/could provide different bonus according to tank type as other similar abilities (blitz/war speed) and/or could scale with veterancy smoothint out spikes in performance.
Sturmtiger
Show Spoiler Consider adding some suppression vs infantry
Improving, redesigning or replacing the NahVW Grenade
Panther V
Show Spoiler Unlike the OKW Panther, we feel the OST Panther is more or less in a good spot. However, to make it somewhat more reliable in combat, the variable reload time of the main gun has been reduced.
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed
Reload time decreased from 5.8 - 6.7 to 5.2 - 5.6 (reload time does not include wind-up)
The comments about OKW Panther x2. The unit and T4 in general is UP and that is why people play Tiger doctrines, this will probably be the nail in the coffin for T4.
If the unit has the POP increased to 18 it has to become a main battle tank having a dual purpose gun either constantly or with switchable munition ISU-152 style.
Stuka Dive Bomb
Show Spoiler * Increase AoE damage multiplier from 1/0.35/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.08
* Increased Munitions cost from 160 to 200
* Removed critical hit modifier
Although removing critical hit modifier is in the right direction the ability is simply not worth 200 mu. It simply does too little damage.
Suggestion:
Increase cooldown the ability can be used to often.
Remove recon planes from doctrines so that it can be used as a combo.
Add utility be giving more damage vs buildings/emplacements. The ability currently does not even hurt a forward assembly.
If one has to increases cost take up to 180
M4C Sherman
Show Spoiler The M4C Sherman has been tied to Soviet Tier 4 tech to prevent it from being spammed and to encourage players to diversify their tech.
Now required the Mechanized Armor Kompenya to be constructed.
CP cost decreased to 0
A good change but why not apply the same change to KV-1? Do we really have to wait another 2 years before fixing the calling MBT (main battle tank) meta?
Penal
Show Spoiler The Penal Squad has received some minor adjustments to bring it more in line with its cost and to reduce its effectiveness as a powerful generalist unit by offering a more distinct choice between anti-infantry and anti-vehicle.
Since the majority of the community agrees that Penal are OP why don't we actually nerf the unit where it actually OP and not beat around the bush?
In the first major overhaul it was claimed that Penal had to be very good AI because T1 did not provide AT capabilities, it proved disastrous. In the second major overhaul Penal got AT capabilities but their AI (for its time-frame) remained over the top but it was argued that it need to that high because conscripts where UP. In this patch Conscripts are buffed yet the DPS of the Penals remains over the TOP. Why? The main problem with Penal is their DPS for their time frame simply lowered down.
The moving accuracy nerf is correct still is not anywhere near enough. The reinforcement cost will have minimal impact since it can easily be bypassed by merge. The XP value is correct but the vet bonuses continue to remain over top for a unit that arrive so early and has so much DPS. The satchel charge changes are correct but still not enough.
PTRS Ready Aim Time reduced from 2 to 1.25 (affects all PTRS variants)
Since you are changing the PTRS why not fix the inconsistency across the different version.
Even better why not redesign the weapon as dedicated AT weapon that (maybe in some version) has a active mu ability allowing to be used vs infantry.
Dshka
Show Spoiler The Dshka HMG has proved to be exceedingly cost effective and thus the adjustments made to the unit below will bring it more in line with its performance and make it less of a spammable unit.
PLS remove the sprint ability as it has been done with other HMGs.
Maxim Suppression Intel Bulletin
Show Spoiler Suppression bonus reduced from +5% to +1%
Instead of turning the bulletin to completely useless why not replace it with different property?
Conscript
Show Spoiler To make Conscript squads scale better into the mid to late game, as well as, be able to trade better vs comparable Axis squads such as Volksgrenadiers, the following changes have been made:
Damage from 16 to 12
Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.7182821/0.6598548/0.55654425
Near range increased from 0 to 10
PPSH accuracy from reduced from 0.621/0.43/0.2 to 0.5645455/0.3909091/0.181818
Molotov upgrade has been merged with the Anti-tank upgrade at the HQ
Changes to DPS in translate in numbers
New mosin around x100% (range 0) x136% (range 10) x108% (range 20) x90% (range 30)
New PPsh around x91% all ranges.
That roughly translates for a PPsh conscript
x93% (range 0) x99% (range 10) x101.94% (range 20) x90% (range 30).
Although the changes in Mosin other ranges are not problematic at range 10 things become very very problematic.
At range 10-15 a conscripts squad out DPS VG, Grenadier and even pioneers while continuing to have more EHP. Combined with ourah it will create many problems. If Conscripts are to become a close quarter unit they should change weapon type and lose or have ourah redesigned.
Although moving near range to 10 is a step in the correct direction and should be implement to all bolt action/ semi auto weapons giving a bigger advantage to CQ weapons the DPS value at range 10 is simply too high.
The PPSH on the other hand should follow the exact opposite root and have its near range moved from 10 to 0.
Ideal the conscript should not have to mix weapon with different optimum ranges like ppsh and bolt action and have the dotrinal ability either give them 6 ppsh or a number SVTs.
The merge of the abilities at the same cost and time to research is totally uncalled for and will make human wave tactics even more effective. Soviet have cheap teching, flexible teching and a the widest viriety of doctrinal solution. If this change makes to game it should be countered weight by step like:
Increasing research time
and/or increasing cost of T1
and/or adding a tech cost to Penal satchel
and/or adding a cost to PTRS and AT satchel (soviet seem to the only faction that get stock AT weapons with no tech cost).
ISU-152
Show Spoiler Pls remove minimum range or make smaller to 2.
Lower price for "Concrete-Piercing" shot and maybe replace the mechanic to be similar to Pershing/FF tulips.
USF
Calliope
Show Spoiler
To bring the Calliope more in line with other mobile artillery and less dominant at mid to short range, the following changes have been made:
Near AOE increased from 0.5 to 0.75
I don't really see how buffing the damage of each rocket will make the unit less dominant at mid and sort range.
If one actually want to make less dominant, one should increase minimum range so the weapon can not be used at point blank ranges.
Priest
Show Spoiler The Priest has received the following changes to make it less abusive and spammable in team games.
Mid AOE from 0.15 to 0.28
Again I dont really see how alsmot doubling mid range and increasing the entity kill AOE will make the units less abusive.
Priest is one of the hardest artillery piece to counter and it can easily dual with the LeFH, it really does not need more damage potential.
Rear- Echelons / Riflemen
Show Spoiler To improve Rear Echelons as a support unit and improve their usefulness at different stages of a match, the following changes have been made:
Smoke moved from Riflemen to Rear Echelon (Lieutenant retains smoke)
Rear Echelon now have access to the Light M7 mine at a cost of 15 Munitions per mine
There is no reason why rack weapon should be better in RE with the vet 1 bonus. The bonus should work similar to Ro.E and affect only the carbines.
RE could become even more useful if the "volley fire" ability become more usable by scaling with veterancy or even being move to vet 1.
Instead to m7 light mine I would suggest moving the doctrinal sandbags and mines to RE.
BRITISH
British Trench
Show Spoiler Consider moving trench and sandbags to RO.E.
PLS include a firing angle indicator similar to bunkers for the trenches
Firefly
Show Spoiler Due to the Firefly's range and accuracy, when combined with the Comet or when multiple Firefly's are fielded, this combination of tank power can prove to be overly dominate (primarily in team games). To compensate, the following changes have been made:
Accuracy from 0.08/0.07/0.05 to 0.06/0.05/0.4
You probably mean 0.04. That is simply not enough because tank commander increases accuracy and get a veterancy bonus.
A FF with a commander has 97% chance to hit a PZ4 at range 60 and by vet 3 it can hit everything accept kubel with 100%.
In addition FF the furthest mid range than any other TD including JT and Elephant at 45 that should be lowered to 30.
BUG FIXES & Quality of Life Changes
Show Spoiler Fixed an issue where OKW starting weapon crew stats were superior to other faction weapon crews, and on-par with mainline infantry
This is not actually a bug but a major nerf especially to hmg34 that get more DPS from its crew at range 35 than from the gun itself. The DPS of gun is so low that a squad can stay under fire for minutes before it start to take casualties.
With change the unit will be extremely difficult to vet when fighting infantry.
If one consider this a "bug" fix one should also fix the other "bugs" plugging this unit like lower buy price but higher reinforcement cost, extremely low far DPS.
It does when it in siege mode. Place it behind a shot blocker and support it and it quite strong
In addition one could also provide more tools specialized in dealing with emplacements like, FMHT, Brumbar, ST, Stuka dive bombing, that could for instance be less affected by brace.
Regardless one should remove the selfrepair ability of the forward assembly.
"Perform moderately well at long range"
"Disadvantaged at long ranges"
Wtf how is this specialized ?
Grenadiers had upper hand on everything at long range, thus they were specialized units.
Grenadiers and VG without weapon upgrade have the same long dps.
Let me suggest something that might need abit more work but might actually be more useful.
Imo the mod has to many changes making it hard to evaluate the impact.
So my suggestions:
1) have a separate mod for doctrinal changes and core changes.
2) Split doctrinal changes into 3 categories.
A) changes to abilities that are simply meh or op like "armored vehicle detection".
Show Spoiler there 2 more similar abilities, vehicle detection of shrek storm-troopers and detection from Tank Hunter IS. The of these performance 3 abilities is completely inconstant. ATIS get the ability always on for free, storm-troopers need a 75 mu upgrade and then pay 30 mu per use, while Soviet lose a commander ability and have to pay mu to use. One has to change these 3 abilities to be consistent and useful according to "cost" with the Soviet being the strongest, then wer then UKF.
For example:
Soviet always on up to range 35 and up to 70 when activated
Wer always on up to range 40 and in addition providing the hammer "vehicle trucking" affect for the schreck storm-trooper
UKF always on up to range 35 up to 70 when activated for 10 MU cost.
B) Redesign commander by shuffling abilities with making some rare abilities more common and some very common abilities more rare.
C) Introduce abilities hat are not used or create new.