Profile of Vipper

balancing mean comparison with a different unit. How the unit in question perform in relation with a different.

attempting to balancing without looking at similar unit is balancing in a vacuum. It's useless.

And here lies the issue. Panther and Comet are not similar unit, they have different roles.

The comparison might even had some validity if they where facing equal threats, but allied TDs and AT infantry are more cost efficient that axis one.

To make thing even worse Panther is unit that is not actually balanced since it has trouble of its own and should not be used as benchmark until first it gets balanced.

Yeah, M10 is very close to Puma in the use, although since its tied to tech it comes much later and thus is useless. Still, comparing the dps in the graph to m10, would make much more sense.

I would made more sense if was talking about the balance of the Puma.

I am simply trying to illustrate the differences between the Puma and other turreted TDs, since there are some people that claim that one should never flank with a Puma.

Also it has been suggested that the M36 could (instead of getting HP) become a "puma on steroids". I explained that that would be redundant since it already there in the form of M10.

One could simply swamp the M10 and M36 as doctrinal and stock and adjust the unit accordingly.

"The SdKfz 234 known as the 'Puma', the SdKfz 234 is an eight-wheeled armoured reconnaissance vehicle."

The Puma is build in the mechanized regiment headquarters and cost and it cost 320/70.

Like the Sdkfz 222 scout car it has 50 sight radius making a good scouting vehicle but it is more heavily armored and has an AT gun. It is also armed with mg similar to Sdkfz 222.

Unlike the "Luch" reconnaissance light tank that specializes in AI the "Puma" specializes in AT although it mg will still harm infantry and its vet 1 ability can be used to kill soft targets.

Since it's AT gun with its 50 range out-ranges the standard range of medium tanks of 40, one would assume that it can easily be used for kitting similar to M36 "Jackson". That would be false because in the differences in main gun performance of the 2 vehicles.

M36 "Jackson" has a gun with relatively horizontal penetration, accuracy and reload profiles:
near/mid/far 0/30/60
Damage 160
Penetration 260/240/220
Accuracy 5%/4.5%/3.5%
Accuracy multiplier moving 0.75
Reload duration 4.38-4.97

Puma
near/mid/far 10/30/50
Damage 120
Penetration 160/120/80
Accuracy 5%/3.75%/2.5%
Accuracy multiplier moving 0.5
Reload duration 3.6-4.1

If one look at the numbers one will notice:
Puma has near and mid range further away than most vehicles
That Puma doubles its penetration and accuracy from max range to minimum range while M36 only gains a x118% x142% advantage.

That translates that Puma benefits allot more in sort ranges than M36, while the M36 does fine in long distance even moving.

The chance of a Puma damaging even the cheapest medium frontally at max range are not really that good:
A Puma firing at T34/76 at range 50 has a 55% chance of hitting it and 53% of penetrating lowering the chance to do damage to 29%. Things become even worse if one tries to move and kite since the accuracy will drop by x50% resulting in a 15% chance.

The Puma thou becomes allot better in sorter ranges.

The effect of range can be easily demonstrated in this DPS comparison between M36 and Puma firing on T34/76.



The Puma start with less than half DPS of the Jackson at range 50 but by range 22 it has more DPS.

The use of the unit is much closer to that M10 than that of the M36.

So the issue now it how does the Puma utilizes its potential since it is fragile.

Well it has to flank or use its abilities. The abilities that help it in this are "smoke" and the vet 1 ability of "aimed shot".

"Aimed shot" will always hit and will have the following effects on vehicles:
Turret-less Tds "stun"
Light vehicles "engine damage"
Tanks "Turret lock"
(the ability as far I can remember has no effect on a couple of vehicles,it can also be used vs soft targets)

All this affect help the Puma to close in take advantage of high sort range DPS.

I hope this thread will help clarify things about the "Puma" .

Guard Blobs are currently strong.

Attacking someone's game skills without any grounds because you disagree with the person - or because they didn't see the videos you saw - is poor argumentation and deters from the topic. Ad hominem, much? For instance, I don't argue about your utterly poor English Grammar (e.g. you luck of game knowledge) - it's pointless and off-topic.

Your claim that :

Flanking with a Puma is a clear no-no, and no experienced player would ever do that.

Is simply utterly and completely wrong.

I did not attack your "game skill". I do not know what your "game skill" is and its rather irrelevant.

I simply pointed out that writing something that is so wrong when their many cases even available on video where top player flank with Pumas clearly demonstrates that you know very little subject of Puma in game.