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Thread: SU-7612 Jul 2018, 09:45 AM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2018, 09:37 AMgbem im saying it sucks simply because it is bad at its role... It simply does not. It perform very good for price, tech cost and Pop. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7612 Jul 2018, 09:01 AM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2018, 00:48 AMgbem 1. not really since i mentioned comparing the SU-76 to what it faces and the stug to what it faces... currently the SU-76 is much worse off... 2. because due to its awful accuracy it doesnt even hard counter light vehicles... you know how many times an SU-76 can miss against a halftrack? There is a great difference between saying that a unit sucks and that it does not "hard counter" light vehicles. Puma has worse accuracy than SU-76 and you are not complaining about it, or saying it sucks. I have explained many time that imo TDs should be separated in categories like "medium tank Destroyers" and "heavy tank destroyers" with MTD having good chance to hit but low to penetrate and HTD having low chance to hit but good to penetrate. So it is my opinion that SU-76 should have its accuracy increased, its penetration reduced, the barrage moved to vet ability, its XP value increased and its vet bonuses revisited so that they increase its penetration. That does not mean that I agree that the SU-76 actually sucks now. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 21:39 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 20:07 PMgbem nah thats because youre trying to compare the su-76 and the StuG in a vacuum... ... Actually you are doing that not me. Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 20:07 PMgbem ... but my point here is that the StuG counters all non doctrinal allied armor with 170 penetration in contrast to the higher penetration SU-76... which only counters light vehicles and the P4... Since according to you SU-76 can counter anything up to and including the P4 the unit is fine. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 19:44 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 19:10 PMgbem soo lets compare the most heavily armored non doctrinal non british tanks to their counterparts 1. SU-76 vs panther... 180 pen vs 260 armor... StuG vs M4a3 sherman...170 vs 160... ... If you seriously think that Panther is in the same class with Sherman and should be used in comparison, there is little point continuing this. If in you opinion Su-76 should counter the Panther frontally, there is little point continuing this. Ostheer PzIV has 180 Armor that gives Su-76 100% chance to penetrate at range 60. I am not sure what more you want. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 18:49 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 18:34 PMgbem 1. mmkay ill take that one... however it must be noted that almost all high armor units are all in the axis faction... high penetration on an axis AT platform only really helps against the IS-2 ISU-152 pershing churchill and comet... 2 of those tanks belonging to the weakest faction ingame in contrast to the tiger/ace panther/okw/command elefant jagdtiger jagdpanzer 4 panzer 4H brummbar all of which can bounce SU-76 AT shells... even with both tanks on a stopgap AT role the StuG is clearly more valuable even with lesser penetration... 2. ive already called for vet nerfs... it isnt a good idea for the soviets to be a veteran heavy faction anyways.. Check armor value again and check chance to penetrate for SU-76, with nerfs to Panther few axis units have high armor. Once more keep in mind that Stug is more expensive in cost, pop and tech cost. Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 18:48 PMzerocoh tracking is such a stupid ability, why would I want to track infantry with AT vehicles? Tracking increase sight range and provides mini map info allowing the SU-76 to enemy vehicles from longer ranges and barrage with better accuracy. It's sight bonus is broken on SU-85 with focus sight. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 18:01 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 16:58 PMgbem soo how about nerfing the vet costs and vet bonuses and giving it good at or good anti infantry... as for the stug 1. close range penetration is the same 2. accuracy is soo bad that 60 more range doesnt really matter with .25 acc vs .4 You are actually mistaken 1) Stug has penetration 200 at range 25 Su-76 has the same at range 30. In addition this is simply misleading both unit are in trouble if the enemy unit are bellow that range. 2) Again you can not compare the accuracy at range 60 with the accuracy at range 50, this is again misleading. As I have point by vet 2 Su-76 has little trouble hitting a PzIv at max range. Given the cost and tech cost and the cost of enemy tanks the unit is hardly bad. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 16:50 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 16:16 PMgbem 2. "and if XP value is the issue then its a simple matter of nerfing the XP requirements" the soviets arent supposed to be the veteran`s faction thats okw... if veterancy is a problem then a vet nerf wont hurt It was pointed out many times from many people including me for at least the last couple of years. Relic chose not increase XP value for reasons unknown. Generally Relic seems to forget to check balance once units vet up and there are many unit that are OP at high veterancy. If you want to compare it with Stug keep in mind that it is cheaper and has lower tech cost, while having more range and penetration. The unit is not bad in AT role. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 16:09 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 15:47 PMgbem but then retaining 1. awful longrange accuracy coupled with reduced long range DPM due to the nerf 2. a 35 muni cost on top of the worse vet 0 barrage... The barrage it has is better than that of mortar at vet 0, since its kill radius is 1.5. By vet 2 which is about the Same XP for a vet 1 stug, it get x130 accuracy and has near 73% to score a "natural" hit on PzIV at range 60. Not sure why you call that "awful" especially since collision increases the changes. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 15:35 PM Actually SU-76 continues to have ridiculously low XP value and very powerful vet bonuses. By vet 2 the barrage is probably more powerful than it used to be. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Rework approach11 Jul 2018, 13:58 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 13:52 PMKatitof Forward Observation could actually be fixed by introducing back recon section, limit it to 1, give according cost and make them use the abilities with that range limit. It would not be map dependent, we'd get unused brit unit back and we could scrap a crappy concept that never worked to begin with. A nice constructive suggestion that might work. In: Lobby