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Thread: Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)12 Jul 2017, 21:14 PM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 21:11 PMGhostTX Wut? I guess I misread something somewhere. And nutz to reverting it back. SPs will own the start point, but at least the Kubel won't be as effective. Can you explain? It takes longer because there's more riflemen? It takes longer because you have 3-5 riflemen squads everywhere on the map. Other factions have to assign dedicated engineers (which could be repairing, etc). In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Emplacement Pack-Up Poll (mortar pit = 50MP)12 Jul 2017, 21:09 PM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 20:39 PMZombiFrancis By directly quoting a changelog and asking people if they like the idea of brits having a version of withdraw and refit for their emplacements? Cherrypicking ideas and presenting them out of context is a scumbag move. No excuses and no exceptions. That is even more so if it's leaving out the remaining 80% of the context, just because they don't confirm your bias. The OP, knowingly and malicously presented the packup change as a stand-alone change, even though it is our express intent to have this combined with emplacement changes. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)12 Jul 2017, 21:07 PM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 21:04 PMGhostTX I like the changes I'm reading with the Kubel and swapping it as a starting unit. The OKW SP is the single most powerful starting unit in the game and it could dominate any capture point. Now, with the weaker Kubel, it reads that all sides can fight "equally" for the starting contested capture point. By the time the SP arrives, the other squads can arrive. I believe this will make a more even fight for first capture points. It reads also, that the Kubel cheese cancer is no longer viable. RE's now have a chance to contest an important capture point. That change has been reverted a few weeks ago; Sturmpioneer is once again the starting unit. Can you link to the post where you read this, so that I can edit it? The original post should be up-to-date. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 21:04 PMGhostTX As for the mod, is nothing being done for USF Rifleman mine laying time? Why is that the longest time for any mine laying in the game? It's the same for all mainline infantry unit engineering tasks; they take longer because they are more spammable (e.g., Volks mine-laying, Tommy emplacement-building etc) In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Emplacement Pack-Up Poll (mortar pit = 50MP)12 Jul 2017, 17:15 PM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 16:57 PMBasilone Get your use out of insanely effective mortar pit then reclaim most your resources after you use it? Lol. Ok so there is 2 practical uses of this, A) reclaim your resources as it loses value or B) relocate it for cheaper when the frontline advances. If A is the reasoning, hell no. If B, well then you should implement trucks to redeploy on map howitzers too to at least have some consistency. What the OP has knowingly and maliciously failed to report is that pack-up is supposed to come with significant decreases in durability and range. Otherwise sure; live version Mortar Pit with pack-up would be stupid OP. Also, the 200MP Mortar Pit comes with one single mortar. The durability changes make it that a single flanking squad will require about 10-20 seconds to completely kill the mortar (depending on squad weapons and regardless of brace). Finally, you need to actually commit a single squad to constantly garrison the mortar pit, if you want it to fire like an actual mortar (i.e., none of the FRP aura bullshit). Brace Our changes to Brace make it so the ability can no longer be used to deny flanks and absorb mass amounts of damage. Instead, it is an ability that can be used to prolong the emplacement’s lifespan against off-maps and indirect fire. - Duration reduced from 30 to 5 - Recharge time reduced from 75 to 60 - No longer increases emplacement armor - Now also reduces incoming damage to garrisoned squad by 75% Motar Pit - We find that the main issue with the current design of the mortar pit is that: 400MP is too much of an investment for the early game, where the British faction is already fragile - At the same time, the Mortar Pit has a very long range, which makes it a problematic unit to play against in certain types of maps - The autoattack range in particular, permits Mortar Pits to harass and wipe squads in a big area with little input - The Mortar Pit is static, and is the only real tool British can use to combat indirect fire. - Finally, we feel that the Mortar Pit offers very little utility outside raw killing power (e.g., smoke is available at Vet1 and is ineffective). The durability changes to the Mortar Pit will make the pit: - More cost-efficient vs indirect fire - Vulnerable to flanking infantry units (especially with automatic weapons) - Less vulnerable to ballistic AT shots fired from a distance Overall: - Now comes with a single mortar - Can be upgraded to a second mortar - Ready aim time normalised for all attacks to improve responsiveness 1-Mortar - Costs 200MP/6 popcap - Building time increased from 90 seconds to 120 seconds - Hitpoints from 700 to 720 - Armor from 5 to 1 - Target size from 40 to 1.5 - Auto-attack range reduced from 120 to 85 - HE Barrage range reduced from 150 to 120 - HE/Smoke barrage cooldown reduced from 75 to 60 - Smoke barrage now available at Vet0 Smoke Barrage - Smoke barrage range increase from 90 to 150 - Smoke barrage has a separate cooldown from Barrage - Smoke barrage cooldown reduced from 75 to 60 - Fixed an issue where the smoke barrage was not covering a contiguous area - Now, only one mortar will contribute to the smoke barrage The changes to the smoke barrage will make it so that a Mortar Pit can still contribute to the fight even when the battle-lines have shifted. 2-Mortar upgrade - Costs 150MP/3 popcap - (30-second upgrade) - Increases hitpoints by 75% - Reduces cooldown for HE/Smoke barrage by 33% The prime reason why somebody would want to upgrade a 2nd mortar to their Pit (instead of building a new Pit) is because the garrison bonus (-50% reload) now requires a unit to be present. Being able to increase the performance of 2 mortars with a single unit is more cost-efficient. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Update on map pick statistics12 Jul 2017, 16:51 PM I never veto Montargis or Hill 331. That's because I want to use veto's for the artifest kind of maps that RedT3rror mentioned, and I can always rely on the 99% of the playerbase having veto'ed those maps (which means you are unlikely to find 7 other people that haven't vetoed them) In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)12 Jul 2017, 16:45 PM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 16:27 PMVipper And the question remains tommies are one of the strongest infantry before minute 1 does it the heavy cover bonuses from minute 1? NO it does not. Is there any reason why the doctrinal trenches are CP2 and the tommies get from start? NO. At this point, I am beginning to question whether you base your assumptions on experience gained from playing the mod, or you are basing this on your own experiences from playing the live version. Yes, there is. The reasons are called OST sniper and Vickers. The other reason is that you cannot build trenches while capping. In the early game, you are NOT going to waste time first finishing the cap and THEN starting to build a trench; you've just wasted capping time for nothing. I've tried very hard, but I've found it practically impossible to even think of laying Tommy Trenches before the 6-8 CP. That's because building trenches means you need to protect them from being capped. Then why bother building trenches, when you already have garrisons around that you also need to occupy? Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 16:27 PMVipper Actually it is very easy to achieve stun lock especially with Tank hunter tommies. The argument hold little water since allies can be allot "gross negligent" with their vehicles less punishment... If TWP was nerfed due to stun-lock same should apply to 45 mu ability. Target Weak point was nerfed because it's a very-high-hit-rate homing projectile fired from 60 yards range. Tommy gammon bomb requires a squad that sucks at close range and sucks at moving DPS to start walking towards the tank, give up their long range advantage, and then require the tank driver to fall asleep for the 5 seconds needed to pull off this maneuvre. Then, the heavy gammon bomb itself will deal small amounts of damage (mostly due to AoE) and the debuff will disappear. Penals can get away with satchels because of their high moving performance and lower bleed; also the fact that their satchel homes in and sticks to the enemy tank. Then, there's also the convenient fact that engine damage stays there, and you have all the time in the world to follow this up with your tanks. Also, are we theorycrafting from our experience in the live game, or are we talking actual games played in the mod? I doubt you're going to float that kind of munitions in a real game with the changes in the mod. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 16:27 PMVipper Chasing units can be fixed with reducing moving accuracy flamers. Being able to run around creating DOT all over the battlefield is not actually helpful. It would work allot better if it was tied to an ability. No, chasing cannot be solved in this way, because you have scatter. The UC has a fixed-arc flamer that can only fire from the front, and has a very brief window during which it is useful. If you spend that time creating DoTs (through which your troops might have to go through), you're wasting your investment; you were probably better off building a mortar pit in this case. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Emplacement Pack-Up Poll (mortar pit = 50MP)12 Jul 2017, 16:33 PM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 12:10 PMRiCE If your goal is to relocate the mortar when its no longer needed at that position, then why do you put refund on it? why not just relocate? There are two reasons for this: 1. We are unable to think of a way to make the relocate fit into the existing UI 2. To completely disincentivize an indirect-fire arms race from forming in the first place The Mortar Pit in our mod has a short range. You would never spam it because you cover so little ground. If you spam it, you need to cover all flanks carefully, and will be at the constant mercy of infiltration units. That is, unless you want to see your sim city vaporise in seconds to FG42 fire. Then, even if you sell all of the Pits, you would always end up losing a lot of resources. Without pack-up, the enemy simply has to mass their indirect fire assets, wreck your sim city (while you're helpless without Brace) and then auto-win. Without pack-up; massing up indirect fire to wreck Sim City (i.e., the current Meta) would only be strengthened by range decrease and Brace nerf. (Note that Mortar/ISG spam is equally cancerous to Sim City). With pack-up, there is no incentive for the enemy to ever enter this indirect-fire arms race. If the enemy overcommits to spamming indirect fire, they know that the Brit player can sell their static emplacements and make Axis indirect-fire investment worthless. Therefore, with this arrangement, neither the Brit nor OST/OKW have an incentive to ever enter an indirect-fire spam race. This leads to less cancer. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 12:10 PMRiCE Can i buy an AT gun as well, and send it back for 75% refund, when no tanks around? Don't think so.. If you paid for the AT gun by yourself, you would never, ever sell it. That's because an AT gun is always useful. The only way you would ever sell an AT gun is if you stole it from the ground; that's not possible with emplacements. The only way the Mortar Pit ends up costing 50MP is if you end up with no Mortar Pit and no veterancy after you've managed to sell it successfully. Basically, you spent 50MP for nothing, and the more emplacements you build, the higher the loss is going to be. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)12 Jul 2017, 15:55 PM Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 15:48 PMVipper Grenadiers need heavy cover more and they do not get, Osttruppen also. Having too much utility on mainline infantry is actually bad designs since it leaves little room for other units. If ones moves trenches and sandbags to R.Eng., tommies will still have access to them in late game but they will be unable to lock sector early when anti-cover/anti-garrison options are not available. Both of those units have fausts and other combat utility (e.g., rifle grenades) to keep them useful throughout the game; Tommies do not have any kind of snare. They compensate for that with higher anti-infantry efficiency and non-combat bonuses. Not to mention the fact that T1 is dirt-cheap compared to the sum of upgrades required for Tommies. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 15:48 PMVipper Actually it is not about me its about being able to continuously stun a tank with gammon bombs from 2 tommies squads. These abilities can be used against infantry/fortification and vehicles for little more cost than bundle grenade. They are simply too cost efficient. Getting tanks stunned with Gammon bombs is down to gross negligence on behalf of the vehicle user. Getting gammon bombs to work requires constant movement and concentration; in which case where is the supporting infantry? Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 15:48 PMVipper And flamer engineer do get pinned and lose models on approach to garrison. WASP can use the flamer behind shot blockers and so no you might not actually see it coming. My suggestion has is not limited to Wasp but to all flamer vehicles. They can be balanced far better if the DOT is available as an ability and not always on. DoT damage is a better way to balance things right. Giving high alpha damage to WASP etc means you can chase and wipe units on retreat (see flamerHT). Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 15:48 PMVipper Flamer do not give any repair bonus to engineers it is the veterancy that gives it to them. And that also should change engineers should either be good at fighting or repairing not at both. That's how EFA engineers have worked since the dawn of time. We tried to change that and it proved unpopular. Therefore we're changing WFA to meet EFA standards. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 15:48 PMVipper It is not a matter of a nerf it matter of being able to counter ATGs that should actually be able to hard counter a Main battle tank. Grenades as an ability is not need on MBT it is under-performing it should receive other buff and not abilities that allow it to charge on atgs. The job of the Comet is to incentivise a T4 investment on behalf of OST and also help breakthrough AT guns; not to be hardcountered by them. If you want to hardcounter a Comet build a Panther. Otherwise there is literally no incentive to ever build a Comet; just spam Cromwells instead. Comet grenades are considerably weaker than other types of grenades and immobilize the tank while being thrown. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)12 Jul 2017, 14:31 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2017, 18:49 PMChocoboknight88 You make a fair point. While this would have been a major problem in the live version, being able to pack up does reward those who can read the wind. That way it isn't as painful, even if you do lose the veterancy. Though it would be nice if Trenches themselves could be more resistant to that ability to at least maintain some kind of foothold. In my defense though, I won't go beyond 30 Pop Cap towards emplacements in any given match. Beyond that and you are a sitting duck. I'd go with Mortar Pit first and later a Bofors or a 17 Pounder. Everything else in my defensive line is a mobile unit inside a trench or on the flanks. I don't consider it blobbing. That being said, the Mortar Pit's auto-fire range decrease is going to make people build it closer to their other emplacements. My normal, idea layout involved placing the Mortar pit behind the Forward Supply Station, the 17 Pounder/Bofors on the outer limit of the aura facing the enemy and Trenches about 20 Range in front of that. While I do still feel the armour increase is the way to go for both the Mortar Pit and 17 Pounder, I will look forward to testing your way first with the target sizes. That and re-test the Mortar Pit durability after the upgrade bugfix. So far, I've only been playing Trois Ponts specifically to test how the new emplacements work in a worst-case map. My experiences so far are: - FRP aura removal makes it near impossible to build up a sim city. - Garrison bonus is crucial; without it your emplacements aren't worth a damn. This means that the more emplacements you build, the more hoping-in-out you need to use them. e.g., an ungarrisoned 17 pounder is dead meat. - Garrison bonus means that you now have to make sure that the garrison squads are healed up, won't die; that you can repair your emplacements, and that you also have enough force in the frontline to hold people from rushing in. The amount of micro required to get a sim city running will not be worth it. - Emplacements are crappy if used as a first line of defence, but amazing if used as a second line of defence. Their goal is to provide a save haven to (soft)-retreat to, while you build up your main force. - e.g., the goal of Bofors is not to hold back entire armies; it's to allow you to survive light vehicles, while covering your attacks with suppressive fire - The goal of the mortar is to build it all the way back, so that it's barely in-range for a barrage. At the same time you can use it to cover your Tommies with smoke as they relocate/build sandbags - With super-range ISG gone, there's literally no reason to bunch up your emplacements; you only have to build the mortar pit close enough to cover your frontline with a barrage; not any closer - 17 pounder is bad; so don't build it. The long reload time would have been OK, if not for the long setup/teardown time (which we can't fix without introducing graphical glitches) - You shouldn't worry about LeFH/zeroing arty any more than you need to worry about upgraded infiltration units Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 10:40 AMVipper I would suggest removing sandbags and trenches from tommies or at least have the require T2 (same goes for all most mainline infantry). Only units like the live conscripts should be able to built heavy cover. Tommies require cover to function; especially in the late-game. If they don't require cover to do so, we'll make them. We just want to focus on fixing emplacements first. So far, Infantry combat vs OKW works very fluidly, both ways. I haven't tested Brits vs OST much yet, so I can't say yet. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 13:29 PMVipper "Heavy Gammon bomb - Cost to 45MU - Damage now on par with Soviet satchel" Price is too low since it more cost efficient than base line which is bundle grenade. The baseline for the Heavy Gammon bomb is the satchel, towards which it has been normalized. Bundle grenades have a 40MU cost, a singificantly longer throw range, and a significantly shorter fuse time. If you are losing infantry models to satchels/heavy gammon bombs that's more down to negligence than anything else. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 14:10 PMVipper "WASP - Cost/delay from 90MU/20 secs to 70MU/50 secs - Now also reduces received experience by a factor of 0.5 - Increased number of dots from 1 to 2 per shot - Garrison damage multiplier from 1.25 to 1" Have vehicle flamer work as hand held and make DOT as an ability. That will help balance flamer vehicles. WASP doesn't have a retreat button, unlike engineer squads. You can see one coming from a mile away, and 50 seconds of build-up time is more than enough to make preparations for it. Either get a raketenwerfer or plan to get a Vet1 MG. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 14:08 PMVipper "Heavy Sappers upgrade We find that the trade-offs involved in the upgrade are too extreme making counterplay options too narrow. This limits the number of strategies possible both by the British player and those by their opponents. - From +100% construction +30% construction speed - From +1 armour to +0.25 - From posture penalty to -25% speed - Vickers_K now takes 1 slot item - (see repairs for repair speed changes)" There is no reason for upgrade to give both fighting and repair bonuses especially since R.Eng. is far more cost efficient that the baseline pioneers. Either separate into to 2 different upgrades one as fighting unit 1 repair unit or chose between one upgrade. All flamer upgrades actually do give repair AND fighting utility to the engineers that affect them. For EFA, we kept their repair speeds intact (1.6 at Vet0, +1 at Vet2). Flamers make it a near guarantee you will hit Vet2 and, therefore get repairs. EFA minesweeper engineers aren't that fortunate; with high probability they will not hit Vet2. For WFA, we assumed that half EFA engineers will hit Vet2 and half of them will not. Therefore, for WFA we gave the same Vet0 repair speed as EFA, but cut Vet2 repair speed bonus to half. The Heavy sapper bonus makes it so that a 4-man Vet2 heavy sapper will repair at the same speed as a 4-man vet2 EFA engineer. The 5-man upgrade inflates Sapper cost to 236MP, which makes it kinda fair. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 14:11 PMVipper "Brit Sniper We feel that using the 25 pounders shouldn’t be as available to the Sniper, given 25 pounder increased potency. - No longer benefits from RA cover bonus - Now requires Veterancy 1 to use 25-pounders - Marker flare range reduced from 35 to 30" Most stun have been fixed so should sniper shots vs unturreted vehicles. Maybe we can give it a slow instead. Jump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 12:41 PMVipper "Mills Bombs We feel that Mills Bombs are very often skipped. We feel that the primary reason for this is the disparity of Manpower Costs between mainline teching and optional upgrades. - MP cost reduced from 150MP to 80MP - Now required for Comet/Churchill grenades" Grenades should simply be removed from Comet. Thee is no reason why such a fast tank that can destroy pak from distance with WP should also get sort range grenades. Have you actually used the Comet in-game vs the new OKW and the new OST? Does it really require additional nerfs? In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)11 Jul 2017, 15:23 PM The thing about Tommies is that we've already had 1-2 weeks of intensive testing with them, back before WBP was even announced (I don't remember who TheMachine was playtesting them with). So, none of these numbers came out of nowhere. Like many changes, that one didn't meet the scope, and was left out. Now, we're just picking up from our experience with pre-WBP testing (neither OST nor OKW infantry has changed since then). In: COH2 Gameplay