If you insist, however, we can make it top 30 and exclude you from the balance discussions since you wanted high rank people who actually understand the game.
Yes, please but lets make it on every faction so you get exluded from the discussion too ^^ |
According to the source I provided, the dps should be 31. If you have a source that says 41, please provide it.
Again. If you can't even be bothered to look at the top 10 ladder ranks for usf and okw provided on the right side bar of this very page, then you wouldnt be bothered to click a link to my playercard even if I provided it.
Quick edit: the mg34 has the same sight radius and same range as the maxim and literally every other hmg in this game...guessing we're making up stats now though
Yeah the fact that you have over 1k games with OKW and 27 games with UKF has literally no influence over your opinions. xD Im happy that you at least played some USF. |
I am only going to say this once. All opinions are valid, as long as they are constructive. Everyone has the right to their own opinions. Whether or not they could/should implemented or not is left up to discussion in said thread. The Admins and Moderators on CoH2.org have done a great job at locking threads that no longer constructive such as trying to attack each other (or necros). These desired restrictions are not needed for everyone is entitled a opinion and voice.
So someone who plays 4k games with one faction and 10 games with another faction, presents no ideas for how to improve the balance but attacks every idea is ok? Someone who makes every effort possible to derail the discussion is ok? His or hers point of view is still valid?
Arent balance notions supposed to be supported by balanced gameplay experience? So in your viewpoint even if Im a complete ignorant fuck and a troll but can express my concepts in a persuasive and eloquent manner my viewpoint is valid?
Yeah I guess I should fucking troll too  why not |
Yeah, the mg34 does its job (i wasnt arguing otherwise), and dps isnt quite as important, but you still didnt explain how the mg34 is stronger than the maxim... also, number of models is specifically important BECAUSE of rifle nades and incendiary nades. Low model squads are made similarly durable through received accuracy but get no such compensation against explosions/aoe. Again, large squads are specifically an advantage against this.
Its better because it serves its main purpose better through sheer stats: better sight radius, range of fire, arc of fire, suppression stats but also thanks to indirect factor like the enemy ability to counter it. Specifically slow throwing speed on molotovs, basically no range on penal satchels. When in comparison rifle nades and incediary nades have huge range, lava nades also have literally fastest wind up time so its easier for axis to nade a maxim also long range weapon profile allows axis player to finish off a maxim after nading it.
You can't just say that all a support weapon needs to do is fulfill its role (you more or less made the mg34s damage doesnt matter as long as it fills its role and suppresses), then later list two support weapons that are the worst at fulfilling their role and then act like fulfilling a role isnt important. The ISG has poor aoe and doesnt do much damage to infantry in garrisons (garrison clearing being one of its main roles, though incendiary nades mostly make up for that). The raketen has poor range and terrible survivability against explosions (shooting at tanks from far away, and not getting instawiped by them in return being its main role), though youre right that the high penetration is really nice, at least when it doesnt hit the ground on even slightly uneven terrain or get its shot blocked by a fence in situations where every other at gun would get a clean shot off.
ISG is getting reworked in the upcoming patch to be less braindead friendly. It serves its purpose as support gun quite alright. I would probably rather give okw a normal so it would make it easier to flank it for allied tanks but they have stealth at gun with shorter range. Other than range and no gun crew cover the weapon is fine. Its not the best okw unit, might even be the worst but I would say its worse than allied counterpart. Its different because it trades of range for stealth. Im always happy whenever I get my hands on raketten because of its high armor pen.
The stats provided on this website were basically consistent with all of the DPS numbers you provided, except for the volks stg upgrade. Since our sources differed, one of our sources was wrong, and I didnt want to concretely state that yours was the one thats wrong since it could just as easily be mine thats wrong. Still, don't let any of this stop your from acting condescending and ignoring solid arguments.
Holy fuck sorry my bad its not 44 its 41. I admit that was a mistake on my part. ITS STILL HIGH AS FUCK for 60 muni and no upgrade xD basically comparable with double bars costing 120 muni and upgrade xD
Pls go away little troll. Show me your playercard to validate your point of view so at least I can treat you seriously. |
Lol.
Isn't there a thread like this every few months when someone gets all personal over a balance question?
I hope not, otherwise that would mean that balance forum is pointless. It doesnt have to be impossibly high but at least showing that a player has versatile faction experience and understand the game well enough. There are a lot of other forums where inexperienced, biased or retarded people can create topics but at least there they wont be taken seriously. Balance forum on the other hand is a place where we can actually share ideas that can bring balance to the force. So yeah, restrict access and remove trolls. |
Again, you can't just dismiss arguments based solely on player rank.
Yes I can, because the higher rank you are able to achieve with every faction means that you are more experienced, understand balance of all the factions better or are just plainly more intelligent than others. Its a strong correlate of better game understanding. Now if on the other hand you play only one faction or cant reach high rank it means that either you dont understand the game balance, you have not gathered enough experience, you are not interested in balancing the game because you want to play one faction or side only or you are just plain stupid. |
Anyway, you act like cons HAVE to be able to win vs unupgraded grenadiers and unupgraded volks. Thats just not how faction balance works. What if i compared the okw mg34 to even the maxim? The maxim has 2 extra men, and twice the far dps of the mg34 all while coming out earlier and only costing 30 more manpower. Does that mean the mg34 needs a buff. What about when i compare it to the vickers which has twice the far dps and 3 times the point blank dps?
Mg34 main job is not to deal dmg but to suppress and block access to an area for enemy infantry. So what you need is good arc of fire and suppression. Dps in case of mg has secondary value at most. That means that mg34 is exactly what its supposed to do. Maxim on the other hand has neither the suppression nor arc of fire to reliably hold off axis infantry. Number of models doesnt really matter when taken into account long range weapon profile of axis infantry. Rifle nades and range of incediary nades.
The reason why this is relatively balanced overall is because okw have the stronger core infantry, but the weaker team weapons. Arguing that cons should be able to hold their own vs volks is conceptually a bad idea as long as okw are balanced around the idea that their infantry gets to be strong because their team weapons are weak.
Soviets have weak both infantry and weapon teams xD and I wouldnt call OKW weapon teams weak. MG34 explained above. ISG? weak? are you kidding me? rakketten with great armor penetration is bad? And to be frank OKW has much more going for them then just overpowered infantry, up until the patch goes live they still have FRP. Luchs performs great, flak too, stuka is the best non doc arty in the game, they get access to monster tanks during late game stage of the game. Only thing Im asking is for cons to be more balanced and you dont even wanna allow something as small as that.
Side note: your close range dps for upgraded volks isnt correct as far as im aware. If i'm correct, its much lower.
oh rly, its lower but you dont know exactly you just 'feel like it' or at least want to disagree to block the topic |
Less relevant but:
You said that balance discussions/threads should be rank restricted so that only people who actually know what they're talking about could post. As far as I'm concerned, that cutoff should be rank 30 or better to achieve its goal, and you wouldn't even be a part of those balance discussions.
I already was top 30, I can get back there, can you? Show your playercard. |
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Balance forum should be a place for people who want to improve the gameplay and bring actual BALANCE to the game. Too many people around here are onetrick ponies, biased who play only faction or side and either intentionally or unintentionally derail topics and simply troll. I mean people like InsaneHoshi guy who is literally trolling most topics in balance forum who played 4k games as OKW and 100 games total of all allied factions. This guy either has no clue about the game or no intention to actually change it and make it more balanced. What else am I supposed to think about a person with such imbalanced game experience? Someone who played over 4k games with OKW will willingly allows and support OKW nerfs or allied units buffs? Ofcourse not, he will do everything possible to stop any change. He clearly enjoyes the game enough as it is to not even try other factions. I mean after 11 usf games he must be an expert on the usf units correct?
My solution is plain and simple, implement a rank restriction. For instance top 100, 200 or 300 with every faction not just one in the same specific mode. Access to balance forum should be granted only to people who pass those requirements, were cleared by a mod and show their playercard at all times. I think that would improve the quality of the discussion and remove all the trolls and fanboys. This way balance topics would actually give some valuable ideas and feedback and wouldnt be slowed down by people trolling are opposing any change. |
I had an interesting thought the other day; What if you could upgrade Vet3 cons to either shocks or guards?
I feel cons are quite useful early game, its just that they don't scale into the late game. Price the upgrade appropriately, maybe translate some of the vet from the cons to the upgraded unit such that there would be an advantage to just calling them in.
That would be crazy op. Scaling ok. But turning basic infantry into elite infantry at vet 3 is batshit crazy. ^^ I do appreciate new ideas but you are loco my friend  |
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