I normally refrain from commenting on the abilities and units from factions haven't played in a while, but being on the receiving end of OKW flares I feel its over performing.
There are three main problems with this ability, when compared to other standard recons:
1) There is absolutely no audio cue, green marker flare or green circle to indicate the ability is being used. The flares themselves are also sometimes difficult to spot on maps with white-ish terrain or are too high up in the air to notice. Quite often you don't know you being watched.
2) There is absolutely no way to counter or prevent the flares from providing vision of your position and then getting bombed back to the stone age by indirect and offmaps. For Brits, this is especially nasty as they rely a lot on team weapons and emplacements to get the upper hand.
There is just no risk in using this ability, just click, know where your enemy is and then bombs awway.
3) The cool down on the ability is about non-existent as it starts its cool down while its active. The flares last for about 35 sec, and the cooldown is 60 sec, so you need to wait 25 sec to use it again. Thats a bit much.
In team games, this ability gets used almost non-stop, probably owing to the popularity of the SpecOps commander and the commander not having anything else to really sink your munitions into. Recon and vision is such a powerful tool in this game and an ability that can provide it risk free and almost non-stop vision, in a faction that already has a non-doc maphack is just too much.
Suggested changes? Not sure, but a cooldown nerf and a green marker flare would be nice. Alternatively, swap it for a normal reacon plane.
Brit arty commander gets the sector flares which also can't be countered or have makers but it at least has the severe limit that you can't control where it goes, it only reveals front line sectors at random (some get flared, some do not) so it usually can't be used to reveal rear line fixed arty and has a long cool down. |
How a lot of the games even up going these days, when playing as UKF, is that early game is relatively decent but can be hugely affected by map design. CC maps are a straight up death sentence for UKF. Mid is game is where things become more contested/balanced and tends to be more back and forth.
Late game where things will completely fall part as this where the axis elites and heavy indirect starts appearing. Your emplacements get swept away by one click no risk abilities. Your teams weapons get insta-wiped by rocket arty and LefH barrages which have constant vision on your positions due to OKW flares, IR halftracks, spotting scopes and cloaked racks.
This leaves you with infantry sections, Churchills and fireflies to try hold the line but you struggle to trade evenly against the axis meta of panther spam (with smoke), command panther, brumbar, obers, vet 5 volks spam and racks sneaking forward and instantly retreating. So you get slowly beaten back and ground down till there is nothing left but the surrender button.
You just don't have the stock tools to deal with stuff that is meta or comes from the axis stock roster. You can't counter rocket or fixed arty positions, you can't snare tanks and you can't clear garrisons. Its a struggle to deal with vetted inf spam and its difficult to punish axis units that over extend. Just limited options that make your strategies predictable and force you to pick certain commanders to hopefully fill the gap.
A lot of your build choices also tend to be reactionary, in that you have to build unit X to counter axis unit Y, e.g. getting a AEC to counter axis light vehicle rushes or fireflies to counter panther spam. If you try to pre-empt what the opponent is gonna do and get it wrong, then it hurts a lot as some units have very specific uses and are worthless in the wrong situation. The only time you can cause a shock to the axis is when you rush out your centaur.
The limited options problem is compounded by UKF having a number of units that are categorically worse than their counter parts while still being expensive, like the Comet, Sexton, 17pdr (Yes 17pdr is inferior to the pak43).
The only thing you can really hope on is that your axis opponent does something silly and completely over extends or that you can break them in the early game. Late game, your chances of winning are slim. |
Tactical Support Regiment
I would say 2cp US mortar Half track call in, its mobile and comes with 4 different mortar shells to support your units, it fits the support theme of the doctrine.
I do like the idea of giving UKF access to a mortar halftrack. |
You are welcomed. The forums should be a place where people can learn something (instead of trying to "bash noobs").
Hope springs eternal! |
you can find them in cruzz's calculator maybe in firesparks file also.
ostwind
Target size: 22 Sight: 35 Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.1 Rotate: 32 Armor: 110/55 Health: 640
Centaur
Target size: 18 Sight: 35 Speed: 5.2 Accel: 1.8 Rotate: 28 Armor: 160/80 Health: 640
The combination of "medium armor" and small size and lots of AI make very few unit good in countering the Centaur.
Thanks for that! |
Centaur is superior to Ostwind and not just damage, the units has high armor and small size (the stats of a pre-nerfed Cromwell if I remember correctly).
Brumbar is not in the same league as Centaur and delivers damage in different way so they should not really be compared.
Finally Centaur damage vs light vehicles should have penalties the same way Luch has since it can destroy them in seconds.
What are the numbers for the armour and size of the Centaur and Ostwind?
I can't find an up-to-date source for stats theses days |
Actually Centaur remains one of the most cost efficient AI tanks.
Centaur is still decent and a must have for every game but not nearly as terrifying as the Brumbar.
It would be interesting to test the AI performance of Centaur against Ostwind and other dedicated AI platforms. |
Small thing but worth pointing out: the comet always has access to blitz and benefits from tracking as well, so IT DOES have those advantages over the panther. It was over nerfed but that's relics jam. Make a broken unit to sell then nerf it beyond belief. I mean who in their right mind says "let's give it WP, that out ranges AT guns and unlike the other WP in the game actually kills models instead of leaving them at 1hp. That's balanced right?"
The Comet used to be godlike, just like a lot of newly introduced units, but what it is now is a pile of garbage. The 'novel features' that the Comet has does not justify the resource and CP cost nor the utterly worthless vet.
I don't consider Comet's warspeed an advantage over Panther as the Panther does get combat blitz, albeit at vet 1.
I haven't used hammer doctrine in ages, so I can't provide a comment about tracking and how useful it really is.
WP shell used to be insanely OP, but they got nerfed and now its just ok. Its cheap to use but its a double edged sword, as while it does damage the squad its fired at, it also provides smoke cover for that squad which makes it difficult to actually kill the squad or any models for that matter. Its basically forces a squad to retreat without loses. Its also been fixed to behave like normal WP, so reduces the model's to 1 hp, however a single WP shell only reduces the health to about 1/5 health due to a very short DOT duration (I suspect).
IE a WP shell from a Comet is not nearly as bad as WP from other sources.
With the Bren gun and Centuar nerf, the Brits do need a vehicle with decent AI but the Comet can't even outperform a Panther in that regard - which is just a sad state of affairs. |
Seems as we are discussing Brit Tanks poor anti-inf, I took the liberty of comparing the Comet's AI performance against the OKW/OST Panther.
Experiment Setup:
Test was performed against a single volks squad (they have middle ground squad size and RA), stationed in neutral cover at approximately mid range. Distance between tank and volks was keep constant between each test run. Tank always started the test already directly facing the squad. The different possible tank configurations where tested, starting with hull MG only (tanks set to AT priority only).
Stated values are the following, given in seconds:
min | mean | max | standard deviation
Comet, hull MG only, number of measurements: 5
64 | 73 | 82 | 6.5
Panther, hull MG only, number of measurements: 6
45 | 48 | 50 | 1.8
Comet, normal attack, with tank commander upgrade, number of measurements: 8
26 | 34 | 42 | 5.7
Panther, normal attack, no pintle MG, number of measurements: 4
30 | 32 | 34 | 2.1
Panther, normal attack, with pintle MG, number of measurements: 4
15 | 20 | 24 | 3.9
Observations:
- The coaxial MG does not fire when both tanks are set to AT priority , likely because the main gun is not aiming at any of the squad members.
- All tank guns will target the closest squad model and focus on a single model at a time.
- Comets main gun was able to hit models more often than the panther but its was still the MG's that do the vast majority of the damage. The main cannon often hit badly damaged models, due to all guns targets the same model, results in overkill.
Comments:
The Comet intended role was that it was supposed to have decent all round abilities and be decent against infantry, while the Panther is good against other tanks but weak against inf. Tests show that Panther, even without its pintle MG upgrade, is better against inf. With the pintle MG its flat out better.
The Comet is a comically bad tank, but the fact is worst than Panther in every way while still being more expensive and having worthless vet is just insult to injury. The Comet does get the smoke/WP shell and tracking over the Panther but the usefulness is debatable. |
I've stopped playing as UKF, as sad as that may be. Instead moved on to playing soviet due to their more diverse unit roster and better options for countering the axis meta. |