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Instead of worrying about on which infantry the Shrek upgrade belongs, why not lock Shreks behind side tech (this should happen regardless) and give them the annoying weapon racks that USF and UKF have?
Then the OKW player can put Shreks on whatever he wants. Although it should be limited to one Shrek a squad. |
ain't that expensive!
But what's the point in buying a commander for a particular unit or ability when that usually gets nerfed a month or so down the track because.... OMG OP CAN'T HANDLES TOO HARRD
Heavy Cav has been out for over a month and there's been no hint of any aspect of the commander being nerfed. The only complaints I've even seen are the 3 second reload time of the Vet 3 Pershing.
To answer OP, I'd have to go with the Calliope Commander, Armor Company, and Heavy Cav as the best USF commanders right now. Rifle Company is still very good because of the Easy 8, but I personally would take Assault Engineers w/ flamers + M10 over RE's w/ flamers & Easy 8.
Calliope just fills a gap in USF's strong core roster by providing the best long range indirect in the game; the M5 AA really helps against blobs; and the M1919 LMGs allow Rifles to scale incredibly well into the late game and shred Axis infantry.
Armor Company I think is overlooked a lot since it's old and free, but Assault Engineers have all sorts of tricks (mines, glorious demo charges, etc.); the M10 is a powerful, cost-efficient, and incredibly fun unit (who doesn't love wide flanks w/ 2-3 M10s crushing infantry and focusing down Axis armor?); the Dozer Sherman (and admittedly overpriced howitzer barrage) round out the commander very well.
Heavy Cav is good mainly because of Rifle Field Defenses and obviously Rangers are very strong and Pershing is a great tank in 1v1, provided you don't try to use it like a KT or Tiger Ace and expect it to single-handedly win the game for you. Smoke barrage also quite useful for getting out of tough spots. |
Some of these tanks deserved a fuel cost increase. The Jagdtiger is almost certainly a better Elefant but it cost exactly the same. They made that cost-reduction change a couple of patches ago in light of the 66% income. Adjustment was needed.
I think King Tiger was a problem too. 30 fuel was not a big enough of a cost difference for how much stronger it was than most other heavy tanks. Particularly with no CP attachment.
I agree that tech changes are superior to jacking up the price of ALL of the tanks though. Creating new tech abilities on the trucks and properly linking them into OKW's tech tree is not the place of a one-week later hotfix. Something quick and relatively hamfisted like this was always going to come.
The bigger question is if Relic is satisfied with this sort of change. Will they be willing to revert these fuel cost increases once build-able tech is added for grenades, medics, engineers and other aspects of OKW truck? I wonder. The ideal solution for them is something quick that does the job and lets them get on to making new content.
Exactly. These fuel and population fixes are a nice, quick, temporary fix to some of the glaring issues, but they really did a poor job rushing out this revamp. As with every other faction, side teching should be a given, if for no other reason than to encourage variety within OKW and to bring it in line with every other faction.
Allegedly the revamp was intended to "open up new strategies" for OKW. There's no denying it did that; the problem is that the Revamp opened up ALL strategies for OKW, at once, and with no penalty for going one way or the other. You simply get everything now as OKW, can easily react to anything, can counter anything, and often with superior units to what your opponent can throw at you.
If we're looking at a late January or early February for next patch, hopefully it contains a revamp of OKW's teching that includes side upgrades and ultimately reverts the fuel costs of some of these units changed in today's hotfix.
I'm still of the opinion that a great change would be forcing OKW to tech a final time similar to UKF's Hammer or Anvil, and then they get the choice of a King Tiger or maybe a Command Panther. The regular Panther would be removed from OKW non-doctrinal because it makes the Jagdpanzer IV redundant. |
3.T34/85
Needs a serious damage and penetration buff. It should be able to reliably penetrate the frontal armor of panthers and Panzer IV ausf.J. It's almost as expensive as an easy eight but it is nowhere near as good.
Had one of these guys shoot point blank at a Volks Shrek squad not in cover last night. 3 straight misses, no model kills, barely any health loss. Meanwhile the Shrek was just penning away...
Mainly bad RNG and I should have been trying to crush them anyway (match was already over). But man, the performance of the 85 these days leaves a bit to be desired. |
Zooks are actually way more cost effective then shreks against medium armour.
Strange because the counter to the lv's rushes of the okw are the aec and the stuart. lv's properly microed and not used stupidly rarely will die to shreks or zooka's.
Its more a question of how you prepare. to many times i see allied players without any AT at ALL when the luchs arrives.
No not really. this will translate in something rolling out a minute later.
minor benefits at best. even if we lock it behind upgrades it will not change a luchs rush.
also that medic truck is not actually free. if you put it at your base you will lose the option to have a forward base. if you use it as a forward base you risk being it destroyed and you need 300 mp to make it a forward base. quite a choice.
Did you just say grenades, healing, and Panzershreks are "minor benefits at best?"
I'm going to assume that's trolling.
And if it's not, well, your assessment of the value of those abilities means jack shit.
Every other faction pays for those things -- USF / UKF pay for weapon racks and grenades separately; SU pays for molotovs and AT grenades separately; OST must tech for Rifle nade, but then must build another building and PGrens for Shreks; USF pays for ambulance; UKF pays for healing unlock on individual Sections; SU pays 250 MP for Medics; OST must build a bunker and then sink munitions for healing; and I think that about covers it.
See all that nonsense that other factions have to do to get the things OKW gets for free? With 100% resources? Being as objective as you can, you don't think there might be an issue there worth examining? |
add tech price remain 90MU that could be insane price.
if you talk about double shrek lol ya no one want see it, just think it is 5 men shrek pg sq.
If you add tech price to Shreks (and Relic should), then I agree, the munitions costs for 1 Shrek would need to come down. But the other guy is right too, Shreks are vastly superior to Zooks, so the cost in munitions (if not tech) should reflect that performance.
So build your first truck for whatever it is. Then research Shreks for 125 MP, 10 fuel. Keep in mind OKW inexplicably has its AT gun in T0, so it's not as if delaying Shreks would leave OKW helpless to light armor. It simply wouldn't give them as quick an instant counter that their base and most numerous infantry can pull out of their pants in the middle of a fight, whereas USF and UKF counterparts must retreat (yielding map control) to pick up AT weapons.
You see how these issues begin to snowball into a faction that--if not overpowered--is dramatically easier to play? And is significantly more frustrating to play against?
Bottom line is OKW needs more fuel sinks. It's a huge part of the reason they are so quickly getting Luchs, Panthers, King Tigers, etc. They don't have to make any choices while teching up, whether they want medics, whether they want hand held AT, whether they want grenades.
You tech to ONE truck and get medics, flame nades, and AT weapons.
Why? What justifies that w/ 100% resource income? |
People wanted OKW resource income removed and teching changed. But most people also wanted a Volks redesign, side upgrades for nades and AA etc, and changes to the army that promote quality over quantity and aggressive combined arms.
IMO most OKW units should have been reworked:
ISGs sole purpose now is countering emplacement and other light arty. But flame nades, Stuka, and fast attacks already do this. ISGs are low risk high reward unit that encourages defensive play.
IR Halftrack is cool but kind of also a joke unit.
Flak track is nice but super niche and overlaps with Luches, and also MG34. Munitions Halftrack or Vampyr Halftrack would have been better.
PzIV shouldn't be in same building as Panther and JP4. It should be anti-infantry tank now.
Obers lmg should be pricier, gas grenade is just stupid. Sprint or zeal or Faust would be better. Vet 4 suppression= ability.
It goes on. This "redesign" is a joke.
Agree with all but the bold. Can't have LMG-wielding infantry suppressing, it's an insta-win in most infantry battles. Remember hit the dirt for Riflemen in Infantry Company?
Imagine the blob vs. blob scenario in 4v4 with two Obers supressing and Sturms / Volks / Falls swarming forward in an unstoppable surge of skill, slaughtering the suppressed Allied infantry and any armor that happens to be nearby. |
They are doing it!
"bC_: working on getting the pop cap stuff fixed for you guys atm
Today, 00:33 AM"
That's great to hear, thanks for the heads up.
The pop cap is only the first part of this that needs to be addressed though. The faction desperately needs to lock some of its stronger abilities / units / upgrades behind side teching, just like the other factions. Things like flame nades and Shreks and medics and engineers should no longer come free w/ standard teching. To put this issue into perspective, 1 USF bazooka costs 150 MP + 15 fuel + 50 munitions, whereas 1 Shrek costs 90 munitions.
Just crazy town right now. |
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Still no hotfix? Not even to fix the population cap issues? |
Although I like most of this the last part about limiting sounds crap, the KT should be limited, the rest I wouldn't put those behing limited numbers.
Well I never liked how heavies are limited for USF, OST, and SU but not UKF and OKW. I know the Panther is technically a medium, but it performs like a heavy due to health and armor and its 3 MGs do decent DPS against infantry.
Comparing OKW to other factions:
USF - Sherman / Jackson -- Pershing (doctrinal)
OST - P4 / Panther -- Tiger OR Elefant (doctrinal)
SU - T-34/76 / SU-85 - IS-2 OR ISU - 152 (doctrinal)
UKF - Cromwell / Firefly -- Comet OR Churchhill (research one or the other)
OKW - P4 / Jagdpanzer IV --- Panther OR KT (research one or the other)
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