SU-85 is almost fiiiineeeee!
It needs small front armor buff maybe, That's all.
SU-85 can deal with Pz IV, Panther, Tiger, KT... Everything except Jadgpanzer and Jadgtiger.
I would never (almost) take T34/76 over SU-85. Don't let enemy to flank and you will destroy everything.
I had even few 2v2 when my 1 SU-85 made over 20k dmg.
1 SU-85 is powerful, but 2 are deadly. Just today, Tiger showed up from woods and surprised my 2 SU-85. Result? SUs stayed alive, Tiger was burning.
SU-85 just needs good micro. Put mines in crucial spots to avoid flanking but if mines fail, use at nade or Guards to slow it down and finish with SU. Just use it range and rememeber, it's defensive/chase-down unit. You should wait for enemy to make a misteake or as chase-down unit, go after one-hit left vehicle, focus sight, shoot, kill, fall back. It's not line-breaker. It's not made for pushing.
Even IS2 is not that strong against AT as SU85 (at least Ive never had 15-20k AT dmg with single IS2). I mean If I had to face KT I would always choose 2x SU-85 over 1 IS2.
SU-85 DPS is amazing, average ROF is 4 sec(faster than Zis, almost same ROF as beta Pak 40), you just need to stop 2 things:
Flanking
Shrek blob
If I'd change anything I'd just raise front armor to 180 so that shrek(180/170/160) don't penetrate it 100% at max range. |
Tech structure is deliberately loose
At the moment I have in my head a hybrid of Sov and OKH
You need T1 or T2 to access T3 and T4, but it is intended that you can get all buildings at some point without deliberately excessive tech cost
Okay, that's not what you put down in the first thread, I had no idea it changed:
Tech structure will be similar to OKH in that it has to be linear
Certainly makes Maxims more viable.But you would still be forgoing Grenadier faust and be weak to M20/M3/222(as you don't have guards). |
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Maxim(T2) looks like the easy choice on paper, but people need to realize this fantasy faction techs like Ostheer, so MG 42 would hit the field a lot sooner therefore should be preferable. |
So a campaign that has 18 missions which probably all take about an hour and you can complete in multiple ways is 6 hours?
Based on what was shown in the stream yesterday(AI spammed volk+puma against Paratroopers & bazooka rifles), a typical mission shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to complete. |
jagdpanzer is so good, do u know how hard it is to hit a pagdpanzer with a su85/zis/Jackson ect? its the hardest tank to hit, it misses and deflects a ton
Jagdpanzer got a very small target size(17 vs 22/24 for SU85/Jackson) and the highest front armor(230 > 200 close range pen of Zis/SU85/Jackson) of any nondoc TD. The only ally unit that can 100% pen a Jagdpanzer from the front without special ability(AP/ HVAP round) is IS2(only close range)/ISU 152(only close & mid range). |
Secondly the SU85 desperately needs a higher penetration OR higher accuracy. It fails to penetrate both the Tiger and Panther reliably enough to make it worth the cost. It is 100% worthless against infantry (at least the Panther has MGs and speed to crush) - at 12 pop/tank if you build more than one (which you'll have to do) you'll really struggle to achieve any reasonable level of AI ability - especially when you start having to deal with Vet 3+ Obers or Vet 5 Volks... good luck.
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Imo the front armor(140) that gets penetrated by Schrek(180/170/160) at all ranges is a bigger problem than penetration or accuracy. |
It's totally fine. It is why you see it in every Soviet replay. (zzzz)
It is obsolete the moment Jadgtiger(or Elephant to a lesser extent) hit the field, that's probably why. At least with Medium Tanks or Jacksons you could Flank. |
People like the Jagdpanzer IV that much? Hmm, I find I have better success with the SU-85, although that could be pure fluke. Is the SU-85 faster than the JPIV?
Marginally( 5.7max 2.1 accel vs 5.5 max 1.9 accel), SU-85 have higher mid/long range pen(190/180 vs 185/170), shorter reload(4 sec vs 4.75 sec with more RNG) & less scatter plus Soviet generally have more vehicle snare available(AT nade or button) than OKW(only Falls and Fusilier, both need doc: Falls are too fragile and Fusilier AT rifle nade have the same shortcomings as Rifle AT nade ) probably explain how you feel it is better.
JP4's edge is in its front armor(230 vs 140) & Vet. |
And I know this is going to be brought up at some point.
However JP4 (135/.66=205, almost as much as T4+SU85= 230 or 240) can't be spammed due to OKW fuel income(2nd JP4 cost a lot more fuel than 2nd SU85). so RELIC probably think it needs better vets and front amror(230 vs 140), also SU85 have better long range pen(200/190/180 vs 200/185/170) and better scatter. I do think all non doc TDs should have front armor on the JP4 level instead of the Jackson/SU85/Stug E level.
Also, kubel have 190 hp so that's why 160 dmg AT guns & TDs don't one shot it. |
Test the P-47 and you will find it is the strongest airsupport ability now!
It is there to make up for the lack of US heavy armor, without it US have no chance against Axis heavy armor supported with shreckblobs or Paks(especially in team games). |
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