I did address it but please, go on insulting me instead of reading my posts.
..says the man that comes in here insulting everybody who posted so far as allied fanboy right in his first post. Congrats.
Btw. comparison of Ostheer Sniper/Shock Troops with Pak43/17pdr is so wrong, but others explained it already. |
wut? People are making good (and bad) points on this thread. Most people believe the 17pdr is in need of a buff.
Your post contributes to neither side. Just passive-aggressive chaff.
+1
Until his post this was a reasonable debate without bad manners. But you can't keep away the trolls forever for sure. So we have to live with it. |
The cost of emplacements are pretty high and their too big(size),and this brings many problems,one of them is the lack of an actual force to protect them,the other is the lack of an actual answer to their hard counters(artillery,flame weapons)cause once you lose them you lose the game and how hard it is to use them in alot of maps or how hard its to even place them in the first place.
the other is the population their taking kills your army and economy.
the worst offender is how cheap their counters are(mortars,ISG) compared to emplacements and how effective those counters are to the entire faction and the last straw is how the british are unable to answer to that,in vCOH you could atleast try to bomb them to hell with 25 pounders but now....now 25 pounders are the definition of useless......
i DONT WANT emplacemetns to be the ONLY VIABLE option to play us the british BUT i want them to be A VIABLE option,and i want to feel i have choices on how i can answer to their counters just like i have an answer to an AT gun.
if those 2 things are fixed turtling wouldnt be UP and it would be enjoyable for both sides.
Sounds quite reasonable. I stopped playing UKF because of this reasons a month ago. Playing OKW/Soviet/USF atm. When I'm up versus brits with OKW I'm always happy if opponents go heavy on emplacements, because I can react with two or three ISG near my medical truck and shell them from there without much risk. Don't go for walking stuka, it is scrap versus emplacements, multiple ISG on the other side destroy multiple emplacements.
The only thing worth building are one or two mortar emplacements if you build them very defensive so that they barely cover the important points near your frontline in the mid of the map and can't be fired at that easy.
Bofors and 17pounders are a fuel sink that minimize brit tanks on the field. It is typical for Relic: On one side Bofors is still op as hell versus infantry and light vehicles and on the other side is countered so easily if you know how. 17pounder is strong too, but countered the same way + much too population heavy.
I would like to see brit emplacements as viable option too, not as a fuel sink, which delays your best units on the fields.
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Thanks for all your input and some hints (manually targeting the non supressed squads/s-mines with mg42 and mortar). Like most around here I find USF Rifle and OKW Volksgren spam the most annyoing, clearly they are the most potent ones.
Most of you want to leave damage and supression like it is, only a third voted for slightly higher damage and/or supression, its a tendency at least. I agree to some post that it would be enough to change some units to disarm USF/OKW blobs instead of changing the whole infantry cover mechanic.
Hardest time I have when fighting OKW with UKF, because Vickers traded supression for damage (a bad move if you ask me), there is no early AI vehicle (if bren had a capable upgrade at least), no AI light tank and no counter spam. In addition they are missing a non-doctrinal blob killer like the demo charge. Whats your best way fending off the volks blob with UKF?
On the other side I like the way they solved infantry combat at UKF the most. They are not that spammable with the exception of lategame Anvil Heavy Engineers, their handheld AT is clearly not op and they profit from beeing in cover more than other factions. Other factions could be a little bit more like that. |
I’m only an average player ranking anywhere in the middle oft the player base. Playing 2v2 and up with friends for fun one or two evenings a week. At my level of skill blobbing is such a huge killer of gameplay, that it really gets annoying. Of course there are counters, but while the real hard counters often come too late the early available soft counter get easily smoked by USF, mortared by various factions or long range grenaded by axis factions etc. Blobbing yourself seems to work out on most matchups.
It would be so easy to stop blobbing at low/average skill while making the game more interesting at high skill level at the same time.
All infantry should be vastly more prone to supression and incoming projectiles when moving/standing in the open. Any kind of MG should instantly supress squads in the open, no more crawling around and tossing grenades. Right now CoH feels so strong arcade-like instead of beeing a strategy game.
Instead of blobbing versus MG and alike you really would have to use counter tactics (sniper, mortar smoke rounds, recon for a flank path, etc.) to advance.
There would be mechanics to reduce the handicap for handheld AT weapons and assault troops which would surely result out of this changes. Assault troops could get a partly concealing smoke grenade like the commandos to provide cover and help storming positions. Handheld AT weapons could be more potent when fired out of cover to make a tank think twice of entering an unrevealed street or hedge row.
Goal of this changes: Punish blobbing and make combined arms more attractive on all skill levels. There are enough underused abilitIes that would prevent turning the game in something static already. Take mortar smoke rounds for example. I would bet smoke mortar rounds get used next to never by average players and even when watching a high skill replay, it seems to be a non existent ability.
What do you think? Should be moving out in the open punished hard or should the game stay more arcade like with ahistorical infantry combat? Feel free to comment.
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I do not understand that even though something is blatantly obvious there are always people that blindly only think about their favourite faction and vote/behave like that. I personally want a balanced very close game. There is so much wrong with this game and so much is really disputable, but this one, really, are you serious?
1/5 of your whole population for a big sitting weapon that is not a howitzer, so with a very limited map control factor is so clearly too much... You giving up so much map control for building this. 20 population less that can move and fight elsewhere. Imagine you build a second one, you kicked yourself with this act. And on top of it its clearly counterable if you really need to kill it. But if you don't have to just let if live and attack elsewhere with superior numbers. Its a big mistake to build this in its current state. |
Railway, 240mm, Stuka Dive Bomb and any other kind of high damage offmap ability. As others suggested just forbid using it on base sector. Since Howitzer building in the base sector was removed there is no more reason to target the base sector. Why using stuka dive bomb on base sector when 240mm is prohibited? Just be fair and do this for all.
Especially in 3vs3 and 4vs4 there so much going on at he same time, that you can get distracted elsewhere. In addition a mass retreat is not that rare in a big multiplayer game. Imagine you get doubled up, one player flanks you badly. In that case mass retreat is the only way to get your troops out alive.
Relic this is your fault. You let all squads flee to a tiny point in an otherwise big base sector, its your strange retreat mechanic that makes this abuse possible. Do you really want to say that its a feature? I hope not, so just prohibit such cheesy tactics. Its so easy to change it. Thanks. |
Don't forget Pak43 can shoot through building which automatically put it miles ahead of 17pdr. It can be placed behind shotblocker while 17 pdr have to be put in really open space.
Yeah thanks, forgot about that one which makes the Pak43 especially useful on city maps. Combined with its small building size you'll find some sweet spots.
Btw. three people voted for "It's fine as it is". ??? Can somebody who voted this way explain why 20 population (!) is okay for a static emplacement with restricted range (its no artillery piece) and a lot of available counters? |
The Pak43 is fine as it is. The 17 pounder should go down to 10pop as well. 20pop is indeed a bit harsh and restricting. But the 17 pounder (or every emplacement respectively) should also be limited to one on the field at a time then. Sim cities were annoying enough in Coh1. With brace and an adequate popcap this would get even worse.
The 17pounder is already limited in placement by its size. On some maps you'll struggle to find a space to build one in a decent firing position at all. I don't think a limit is necessary although I wouldn't care because I wouldn't build more than one ever for two reasons:
1) Brit tanks are the best thing about brits: Centaur, Firefly, Comet. Avre etc. You don't want to invest to much fuel in static emplacements when you have such decent tanks around.
2) 17pounder is easily countered. Of cpurse brace is strong versus one fire abilities and offmap attacks but it quickly goes down to constant artillery (LeIG) or flame attacks (Mortar HT) once the effect wore off. In lategame the Jagdtiger outranges it and thats a real pitty. Atm its a fuel sink in most games.
I like building Pak43 a lot more, because it costs no fuel, has greater range than any allied tank, can be remanded and can't be destroyed while its manned (only decrewed). On top of it all it costs only 10 population.
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Emplacements get rekt by LEIG and Mortar HT flame attack. This is a problem of this two units and not a problem of the emplacements in general. So they should balance this two units versus emplacements and not the emplacement defence versus indirect fire in general.
As nodickwiliams said, 17pdr is garbage. To big, to much population and to easy killed for its costs. This one needs a general overhaul.
In addition I would like to see a button to give up emplacements, destroying it by doing so to deny occupation by the enemy. Its annoying to kill them by yourself manually if they get in a bad position because of frontline shifting while they are still contributing to your population limit. |