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Curious, why did kimbo get banned (what did he do)
and which faction do you play?
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Why is SU76 the almost never built for Soviets?
never built and people think it's fine because they see it being made
what a pitiful vehicle, deserves more of a thread than the is-2 and i wanted to include it as well, but i already made one and it would have gone nowhere, but i digress |
Do we agree that the abilities "Hull Down" and "Firing Positions!" are not "exactly the same" and that comparing them is not really meaningful in any way?
Do we agree that an Elefant and KV-2 are completely different units?
Do we agree that KV-2 is quite unique with dual role?
im not claiming that they are the same ability, they are equivalent to their faction units and one (wehr) is stronger than the other (sov)
stop acting retarded to prove a point thats not relevant, thanks and fuck off |
Did you ever play in 3vs3, 4vs4 vs an Avre middle? No fun i can tell you.
But yeah on the one side its too powerful for such units as you and me listed up, on the other side, left and right side is just longrange fights.
i have played many 3v3s but not vs Avre's, not that i remember
i didnt know avre could fire over the wall like the st, good to know though |
I've seen a JT barrage first hit wipe my entire rifle squad. Never knew why it has such a low cooldown and is on a tank with 450 frontal armour and 1000+ hp. Sure an ISU152 has a 60 range HE shell and good armour (340), but it has it's weaknesses. No panther to defend dives against it and generally pretty weak main tank considering AT. With the nerf to the RAM combo, JT having 300 dmg and 500 penetration and 450 armour and better accuracy on the main gun, don't know why it also get a massive AI ability that can one hit wipe squads from 125 range, when generally Soviets won't be able to deal with it without sacrificing more MP/fuel/muni than one JT is worth.
The only real downside of the barrage on JT is that it has no spread. It's quite accurate and pretty much all shells land in the circle meaning, if it's aimed at moving squads, you will damage and definitely force retreats but unless it's a first hit wipe, you won't get a lot of kills past the first shell. Of course, if the enemy is not paying attention at that moment and the squad is static and you use the fussie flare to scout it out, you can inflict massive damage.
Again, this lack of scatter means it's better against encampments.
Still, why a dedicated heavy AT has a 125 range AI barrage is beyond me. Probably sturm or sander like using it a lot on wide open maps in teamgames. Who knows. I agreed with the range nerf on the ISU152. Nobody likes 70 range mini-nukes in teamgames but ISU152 has a lot of other vulnerabilities:
1) It's AT is mediocre with the ROF and penetration values
2) It's frontal armour is not all that impressive. It's high overall but you can't really force luck with it (like you can force luck with a KT against a wall of M1 57s)
3) It does not have a Panther to protect it.
JT never should have had a barrage ability, not with the armour piercing ability that transforms it into a pak43 for some time.
the ability is laser accurate precisely because you are supposed to snipe AT guns, the only thing that's going to really stop you. Your infantry can beat their infantry regardless. |
KV-2 should just get a barrage like the Brummbar or 105 Sherman does.
Siege mode is just badly designed
contrary: the siege mod is IMO amazing at defensive play, if defended well, the enemy will not really be able to shoot at the kv-2, while the kv-2 can shoot at them |
These ability are NOT "exactly the same" and actually their quite different:
Ostheer:
Name: "Hull Down"
Duration: None
Cost: Free
-25% received damage.
+25% weapon range.
Vehicle can't move.
KV-2
Name: "Firing Positions!"
Duration: Toggle Ability
Cost: Free
+30 maximum range. (+75% weapon range)
+25 minimum range.
KV-2 is immobile in siege mode.
One one is doctrinal ability taking up a slot and the other is ability always available to the specific unit.
There is no "received accuracy penalty" it has been patched out around three years ago.
Wehr """""commander slot"""" ability grants the ability on all tanks, including the ELEFANT
The hulldown has none of the drawbacks of the siege mode, except immobility (but you can immediately cancel it), it grants only buffs.
Also - the "75%" weapon range doesn't mean much when the elefant, a 70+ range TD, gets 25% larger range, which already puts it at a more or less same range as the kv-2, a pak-43 on wheels, you could say
Just because its a "commander ability" doesn't make it not strong, its not as strong, game-trivializing and bullshit as spotting scopes, but its definitely underrated |
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the kv-2 is really good, the gun takes a while to fire
but the only, ONLY complaint you can have on the kv-2 is that it gets punished for siege mode, but the exact same ability (hulldown) in jaeger armor does not. You get ~5 seconds of wind down time when de-sieging and iirc a large received accuracy penalty, but the hulldown ability lets tanks instantly go mobile |
ISU-152 is used for it extended range people would still use it if it did 160 damage and fired every 7 seconds.
IS-2 does not need 240 damage with slower reload, nor does need a massive buff of 240 damage with it current reload.
this is an absolutely awful take - if the isu had 160 damage it would be terrible, horrible.
Now on the other hand, if it always, 100% penetrated and HE was back with +10 range... |
Tiger does not have a JP4 to cover it, while IS-2 could have an SU85, if it needs it of course.
Regarding commanders: 1 commander has incendiary, shox, stealth AT and kv8, another has radio intercept, t34-85, insane AI loiter and self repair.
Both commanders are far from bad.
About use cases: I suppose you ignored Storjager's comments and the replay I posted, where panther could do jack vs IS-2.
And about uselessness of spreadsheet: you have to understand where to watch and to what pay attention. Just saying it has little value, because some illusive commanders and unknown use cases does not clarify why IS2 is worse then Tiger. That sounds to me like Ulumu's comment about how Comment has better AI then KT.
IMO the kv-8 is a noob trap in team mode, you need to stay around infantry with shreks, long range snares and distant ATG stun to do damage. And no, contrary to popular belief, the KV-8 wont counter and will basically insta die to 4-5 panzergrenadiers with panzershreks equipped. as this can happen in larger gamemodes (but this counts for all allied armor) OF COURSE it can happen that you snowball with the kv-8 as the enemy didn't expect it for whatever reason and has no reply to it, so you cause insane damage, albeit very rarely. I see kv-8 users, in different situations, eventually getting routed due to being outnumbered in tanks (as the kv-8 doesnt exactly do anything vs them)
Shock rifle frontline has saturated anti-infanty, camo, heavy tanks, yet it feels lackluster, focused too much on AI
armored assault is a good doctrine but you invest it all into armor - you have no conscript upgrades or elite infantry to fight with. The loiter is real nice though, even if axis have an anti-everything loiter |
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