IS-2 used to have ,more damage and lower ROF.
"IS-2
....
Damage from 240 to 160
Reload from 9 to 6.2-6.6"
I guess people did not like it.
Guessing by the poll and by the current IS-2 pickrate, they don't like the current situation either. Also the game changed since then. Maybe we should give it a try |
More damage and consequently splash vs smaller squads sounds like a disaster. Decreasing shots to kill a panther and stug would also be a nightmare.
I mean nowadays T-34 will on average kill a stug quicker than the IS-2. This is the issue that i'm trying to adress. |
I mean this needs to be tested.
I'd say though that the main benefit of this would not be vs Luchs and Puma (at the time the IS2 comes out those units are dead for the most part, and if not the IS2 needed two shots at them which might not happen due to their speed and the IS2's ROF). The biggest impact would probably be on Panthers and other heavies, plus some minor effect of killing medium tanks with a single snare (although this implies three shots on the medium + snare = 3*200 + 80 = 680 damage).
Second, depending if you want to adjust the AoE values or not, the damage increase would also improve AoE. By how much I can't say without plotting it out.
Realistically, I don't think any heavy will see further changes since the balance team will focus their efforts elsewhere (at least judging by Sander's posts, I don't have any insider knowledge).
Yeah I am aware that this would require further testing. I just wanted to point out that the current IS-2 requires changes as it just feels powerless.
Also I think that the current IS-2 AI is decent, if the rof doesn't get lowered, it should be adjusted accordingly to be on par with the old one. |
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Then how about increasing it's damage only slightly, to a number that would give a little extra punch vs vehicles like puma/luchs. I say 200. Then the rof wouldn't need a change for the most part, tank would work the same against regular mediums. The price and pop could be slightly increased accordingly to make even it out.
The IS-2 would stand out from the 160 rule, but not so much that it would greatly affect the game. There would be no need to make it more RNG based.
Current IS-2 rate of fire combined with small damage per shot make the tank laughtable. That's my biggest concern |
And what make you think that KT is more cost efficient than Tiger?
I have never mentioned cost efficency. I was talking singular unit efficiency and overall strenght. I want the IS to be less powerful than a KT but more powerful than Tiger - similar to a tiger ace, but with a diffrent feel to it (more damage per shot, lower ROF).
Also konigstiger is nondoc |
If you think the Panther should not be sufficient to retain an IS2, why should Axis be forced to invest more resources and pop into counters that can be used for AT only (you previously talked about Panther + StuG/JP4, so about 30 pop), while the Soviet player should only invest 21 pop into an allrounder? That would be actual misbalance.
Panther's armour with some other means of AT have very big potential to fully destroy the IS-2, that's what i meant. I understand your point of view, but the changes I suggested to the IS-2 would also increase it's cost, and by that I also mean popcap. It would still be a worthy trade to defeat the soviet superheavy.
Lower rof and higher damage for the IS-2 would also mean that it's micro potential would be higher, as you could reverse after every shot, but it would preform not so well while fighting straight face to face. I don't want the IS-2 to wreck everything, I just think that it should be an investment having impact on the game, while also feeling unique, and not falling into the category of "welp i guess my commander has it so i might just as well try to use it". |
i think lelic pretty much is set to make tiger and is2 equals not is2 and tigerB
Yeah I am aware of that, but since KV-2 is a thing, I have suggested that IS-2 could be a little bit above Tiger, similar to a Tiger Ace. I feel that the KV-2 is just overall better now, and IS-2 being a level above would spice things up and make the game more diverse. It just doesn't make sense to me, that soviets get 2 heavies which cost the same and have somewhat the same role, while one is simply better than the other. I also backed up my claims from a historical point of view.
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DUDE it's not 1 sided it's literally a matter of 1 shoot bouncinjg the is 2 has more pen and amror so it's more consistent while the tiger has more ROF so more chance to pen
here the stats https://coh2.serealia.ca/#95
and i already showed u in the img that it's basically 1 shoot difference so who is more lucky i could do 100 test and im quite sure it would be something like 45 to 55 for one or the other
I said that i have preformed 12 fights and IS-2 loses 2/3 of them. If this is not one sided, I don't know what is. Also keep in mind that when fighting from the side Tiger will beat IS even more |
it already loses to is2 so what's the issue ?
nobody is planing to buff ROF or damage or health of panther
the fight with the tiger is basically a coin toss (more armor and pen vs higher rof)
The point of this entire discussion, is that I want to make IS-2 stand out by increasing it's price and CP requirements and make it actually give a big punch with lower ROF.
I want the tank to get an overhaul, and to be between Tiger level and Konigstiger level, because it's currently not viable in both 4v4s and 1v1s/2v2s.
Just give the tank some love it deserves so it can be at least useful in team games like the Tiger is. |
it's not equal it wins 80% of the time , and u are a big hypocrite as u just said win most of the time (since u consider is2 beating panther equal) means equal but in ur test tiger won only 2/3 of the time , does that not mean they are equal by ur own words ?
Okay I should have said almost equal, I agree with you.
But this does not change the fact, that IS-2 costs 50 fuel more, requires 12 CP and is present in only 2 commanders.
At the same time Tiger and IS-2 cost the same but the fights are one sided. Also the tiger is present in more doctrines and they can be very versitile. |
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