CoH / 2 is definitely desgined to favour offense in general. One of the biggest complaints leveled against the Brits was that their strong emplacements led to too much defensive play, especially in the lower tiers when you'd have that sim city silliness.
It's a balancing act, but I'm not angry that defences are "relatively" easy to bypass or dismantle. The only exception is when there are natural choke points in maps that mean you onyl have one or two spots that you need to flood with units and its trivial to lock down as a result.
Well my problem with the defensive structures in game is that some defensive structures are a little more futile than in COH 1. For instance building a trench was somewhat silly in COH1 but is definetly stupid in COH2. I watched some high level game where a top player (can't remember the name) made a citadel with wire, tank traps and trenches in the middle of Minsk map but that was far from necessity, it was just for fun and probably to change the playstyle. Building wire, tank traps, etc. takes so much time that it should actualy mean something and be a valid strategy. In addition, when it comes to capping, in COH2 every resource point matters.
Many high level players are wiring in startgame some objects that provide green cover for the enemy. Fact is that the enemy can come from a different direction and the wire you just build can prevent you from seeking green cover. That is why I think in most of the situations this wiring business means only losing time.
Defensive structures as bunkers or fighting positions are useful but they can't be upgraded to create new units. Maybe is just me, but I really miss the medical bunkers COH1 style.
All in all I don't think a defensive style can help you reach a higher level. It's just meh. And sorry, but british defensive style in COH1 was quite interesting, on many maps to properly lock an area you needed brains. |
Soviet industry is extremely unfair to the soviet player actually as you have no control over conversion, benefit is not instant and disadvantages heavily outweighs advantages(have fun arguing that, the popularity and presence of industry doctrine in the games speaks for itself).
With CAS conversion its 100% your call, you don't need it, you don't use it, you need it, there, instant reward!
So you have picked a really bad example to compare.
If one resource conversion ability is plain OP, its this one as all others give up something that can't be made up for or are counterable or dependent on additional factors.
Industry will punish you sooner or later because of constant penalty that fuel does not make up for.
Opels can be destroyed.
Luftwaffe supply drops can be stolen, require your unit to be there and are extended over 1 minute.
OKW conversion is dependent on territory capped, doesn't grant instant reward and you are slowing down your other resource income akin to industry, but you can switch and turn it off at will.
CAS conversion(which is also present in other doctrine, but isn't as imbalanced there) is simple click for reward with little choice as you are still able to tech and get armor reliably.
Lol, I wouldn't let you balance not even a billiard game. |
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My theory about defense is as Napoleon said, "the best defense is the attack itself".
My experience in this game (and in COH1) tought me that the defensive player has the best chance to lose. So the conclusion you must draw is that you need a mobile strong army which is able to walk around the map easily while winning the majority of engagements if not all of them. If this kind of army is doubled by a good map presence (no matter if this means reinfforcement units/bunker, fwd retreat points etc) from strategic point of view the battle should be won, unless youa re outmicroed by your oponnent. Establishing good defensive positions on a certain side of the map (more or less big) will repel your enemy once, maybe twice, but not for ever.
If defensive style means just placing alot of mines, then I fully agree. |
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Company of bugs |
However, in Ostruppen conversion is not a problem, because spamming Railway Artillery in your LOS isn't that helpful - and that commander has no inherent recon ability.
I see people are mainly complaining about ostheer blob efficiency more than the air strikes. Therefore I have to tell you: yes, Ostruppen doctrine has it too, but it's not such of a problem because people don't use this doctrine correctly.
Why spamming railway arty which will never hit a thing when you can convert, convert convert, build your blob and, in addition, place that arty officer in it with his abilities? I promise you, Ostruppen doctrine gren+pgren blob > CAS blob. But people will rather use the ostruppen for early map invasion.
If used correctly, this doctrine will start the same amount of whinings as CAS does.
I think that what this people want is soviets steamrolling everything because they allways attack the slightest chance of ostheer (or okw) to give an apropriate respond. Well I say let's do it, and see if they will like the game then. |
where CAS unique drawback is fully compensate by what other Ostheer and OWK players can field while it completely annihilates Allied late game strength.
To many words for just stating your opinion which was the only thing required.
Don't want to flame you further, I have nothing to discuss realy with a player that has only 8 Axis games so I'll stop here. Just for the record, I completely disagree + my opinion is enirely viable for the reasons I stated before. Keep lying to yourself imagining that 4v4 is so different game compared to 3v3. |
OKW is no more OP, just bad designed, while more /75s means less /85s. Would it be bad for you, Axis Only Player™?
OKW is no more OP, I agreed to that and I love it's no more OP. Related to bad design, I dunno. OKW was one thing at WFA launch, now it's verry different. No one said back then it was bad designed, not alpha or beta testers. They were verry happy and excited about this faction. And now, we hide under these words: bad design. I think it wasn't bad designed, it was supposed to work in a different way. Then kubel was changed, because it was underused. Then raketen was changed because it was thought it was overperforming. Then the infantry cannon, then pz2, then wurframen. The JLIs. And so on, untill the latest changes to Obers and KT.
What we call today "bad design" is where all these changes - some of them not apropriate - drove us by modifying the bahavior of most OKW units (OKW is the faction that suffered the most important changes since launch if I'm not mistaken). We have no right today to call it bad designed. It is balanced, or more balanced that it was in the recent past, but this is all we can say about it.
And I'm not an Axis Only Player. |
You can still go to post office, just remember to bring your smartphone and teamviewer switching the HE/AP round.
I don't care what they say, but Soviet are truly the bullshit heritage of the abusive part of Brit, PE and US and Wehr.
Cons, spam uncrushable, very durable sandbag everywhere at vital points, German can't win unless outnumbering it. OKW Volks sandbag? Does it last for 2 mins?
Clowncars, fucking BC and Roos, from Brit.
Wehr Volks depends on their sandbag helping their survival, but NOT making them 2X more durable.
Every Soviet squads (and Fusiliers), 6 men squad, never need to afraid getting one shot by AOE until the very late game. Meanwhile, Grens, Ober, all German support weapon, getting themselves one shot 24/7.
82mm and 120mm, precision strike is the greatest bullshit ever. See a squad capping? See a MG or german mortar you want to take out? Pay munition and a click, or just sit there, alt-tabbing out, switching tune in iTunes, done. All experienced guy dead. #Esport
And Relic think German mortar count-barrage means something in this mortar warfare, ROFL.
Guards, new Obers, period. Oh yeah, remember your Great wall of sandbag?
Shocks, six men KCH, never changed.
T-34/85, best medium tank in the games, come without even need to tech, arrive on battlefield even faster than Panthers, come with marked target. I thought PE panther groups call in was abusive enough, dude. At least PE need to tech all structures. Soviet don't even need to get a damn T3/T4. And it come with a stupid click bumping even MOAR damage.
ISU, anti-all units, I proved it is bullshit by trolling Stephenn 9 Cons, no tech into 2 ISUs 18 months ago. And guess what? No one cares. (And Lenny doing this now 24/7 I heard?)
IS2, able to bounce panthers, tiger, Pak40, Tiger Ace shell 24/7, and some dudes out there asking more buff to it. 
Call me a Axis fanboy, I don't care. That's my feeling about this game.
When playing Soviet, it is like playing without needing your brain working.
Spam 4 Cons, or T1 clownars, call in 2 Guards/Shocks, call some 120 behind shot blockers for free Squadwipe™ (NEVER NEED TO MICRO BECAUSE THEY NEVER DIE), tech for T70 or Kat, spam some fuel cache. Repeat calling in ISU/T3485, A move (or just move) until you win.
There is absolutely zero strategy at all.
Meanwhile playing Germans is so frustrating, Squadwipe™ happens 24/7 by AOE NO MATTER how you micro them, because guys love hugging each other. Ostheer combined arms are fun, quite effective on theory, but guess what 120 just wipe them all.
MHT or Stuka? It doesn't matter, that thing can survive with one dude left. Even all six are dead, just pick it up back, Squadwipe™ continues, forever and ever, Amen.
The funniest thing of all is that all these soviet lovers are still saying that OKW is OP (lol) or their beloved faction is to weak, because cons "suck", because T34/76 is to shitty curently, and so on. I guess PTRS is Up now too. Just lol. |
Play 4vs4 and get your own answers, but its probably too much for you, better to call 4vs4 players low skilled scum that have no idea what's the problem with a doctrine in their game mod.
Btw, It took you an entire day to formulate your answer and try to keep your dignity in your reply?
Well, unlike you, I didn't intend no ad hominem with my replay, while I just stated my opinion related to CAS and the behavior of this doctrine on different sized maps no matter how many players would these involve. From this point of view, you can't tell me that you play a different game on 4v4.
P.S. : See? I could do it in a civilized way with no ad hominem attacks instead just replaying to you that "4v4 heroes wanna be" have nothing to teach me about game or doctrines and that the skill and game knowledge is not accomplished by playing 4v4. 
Oh, and I'm sure you have learned everything about CAS in your 8 Ostheer games. |
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Soviets = currently the most powerfull faction. So anything you dislike about them it's compensated by this. |
_Hiena_
xingyuguan
Relic Entertainment
