After playing more, I've got to say I really, really hate kubels being able to cap, especially when fighting the AI who's programmed to back-cap all your points above all else. There's no defending against kubels harassing your points every thirty seconds. I hope to God Relic removes their ability to cap completely. If not, they should not be as durable or potent as they are. |
After playing more, I've got to say I really, really hate kubels being able to cap, especially when fighting the AI who's programmed to back-cap all your points above all else. There's no defending against kubels harassing your points every thirty seconds. I hope to God Relic removes their ability to cap completely. If not, they should not be as durable or potent as they are.
Oops, meant to post this in that other thread. Whatever. |
Trip wire flares should just be a standard engineer buildable. I miss the old vet 1 ability. And I mean old. Like original CoH 2 alpha old. Conscripts used to have an ability similar to Terror Doctrine's Zeal ability, in which the squad fought harder as it took casualties. That was way more fitting thematically as well as actually useful. With that said, I do like trip wire flares.
I remember grenadiers used to have something way cooler than medkits, too, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was. |
These are mostly excellent changes, especially for OKW. I'm glad to see the resource penalty gone and the return of the normal grenade (though I'd like to see the incendiary grenade on sturms instead of volks). The penalty isn't needed anymore. Great work, Relic. Though there are some concerns I have.
Kubelwagen
* Can capture (15% faster capture rate)
* Suppression removed
...
I'm really happy to see the kubel not be an MG platform anymore. It was garbage at it before because of its pathing. That stupid thing would always rotate on its own and lose its suppression, or do donuts instead of retreating. It was awful. So I'm glad to see its role changed, though I'm having nightmares of kettenkrads. Those things were so annoying because there was nothing you could do to stop them from capping short of killing them. At least now in CoH2, you can stand in the capping circle.
With that said, I'm really afraid of how annoying a kettenkrad that's capable of actually fighting is going to be. I'd suggest a small munitions upgrade to kubels before they can cap, like 10-15 munitions. Just so they're a little less spammable for capping purposes.
Rifle Company
We made some adjustments to Rifle Company to address the ongoing issue of mainline infantry having such a strong anti-garrison weapon. Another thing we wanted to address was the ability to break the intended pacing of veterancy.
Rifle flamers Moved to rear echelons (CP reduced to 0)
Fire Up! Now replaces elite rifleman (Squad will move at maximum speed for a period of time. After the squad will suffer exhaustion after)
These changes are wholly uninteresting. Who really cares about sprinting or RE flamers? They're just nice bonuses that come with the only appealing utility left in the commander: Easy 8's, and you'd think those would be more suited to armor company. You might as well just rename rifle company "Easy 8 Company." I get wanting to rework veteran riflemen, but could you please replace it with something cooler and more fitting thematically?
The British
* Pretty much everything listed
Wow. R.I.P. British. So volks get their damage buffed while tommies get nerfed substantially at the same time. Tommies are going to be bad now. Heavy engies are stupidly expensive now. Churchills don't deserve to be 180 fuel now; I'd have agreed with making them 180 fuel instead of nerfing their health and armor like in a previous patch, but not both. And how many times is the Crocodile going to get nerfed? It doesn't deserve it anymore. Meanwhile, the AEC, base arty, lack of reliable indirect fire, sexton, 17 pounder, firefly (yes, I think the Firefly is bad and is being carried only by tulips) go untouched. |
The super units that justified the resource penalty have been nerfed a long time ago. The resource penalty holds no justification anymore, it has been like that for quite some time now.
I completely agree. I'm glad to see it gone.
You do make valid points, yet rushing for a kt in a 1v1 is well, impossible since you can't rush it. The balance is mainly for 1v1 and 4v4 will see totally different outcomes. To add to this, kt is now limited to one whilst still being nothing more than a driving hp pool with shit armor and a good gun.
For sure, KT rushing in 1v1 is less viable than in team games. All I'm saying is this: they no longer have to wait for their trucks (although this is somewhat offset by them costing resources now), and their income is faster. Even if OKW buys a Panzer IV, that KT is going to come way, way faster than it used to if they manage to have good map control through the early and midgame. I only think teching costs and timing should be examined further; I certainly am not espousing the return of the resource penalty.
As for the ai part and tommies. Unless you played expert, the ai controlled tommies aren't a good representation of what actuall players can do with them. Ai doesn't build anything according to strategy, it just builds loads of stuff and throws it at you.
To an extent, yeah. But when you see a volks and tommy squad each shooting each other by themselves, and the voklks straight up shred them, I think it kind of confirms that both buffing volks' damage while nerfing almost everything about tommies in the same patch is going to need some adjustment. There's nothing subtle about more/less damage.
How is rifle company now butchered? You can put flamers on rear echelons and support these echelons with rifle bar bazooka blob of doom. Your rifles will still vet up pretty quickly and reach the all important vet 2 soon enough. We finally have echelons with a purpose. Also don't forget they get a 5th man at vet 2, this combined with 5 men rifle squads with bars and bazookas will still rule the field. Most certainly since relic decided to remove all crowd control options for OKW from normal tech structure. Mg34 is still doctrinal.
It's more of a thematic failure than anything. It's called "rifle company," so why it does next to nothing to benefit riflemen is silly. Nobody cares about Fire Up!, and flares are a niche utility and always have been. Flamethrowers on rear echelon troops is okay, but they're still rear echelon troops at the end of the day. Sure, it isn't a shitty ability, but it certainly isn't anything to get excited about when choosing which doctrine you want. The Easy 8 is the only cool ability in this doctrine now. Relic should have just reworked how veteran riflemen work, rather than scrapping the concept. |
Fire Up! is stupid and useless. I never use the sprint ability a few Wehrmacht doctrines have, and I'll never use this either. I haven't played USF in the patch preview, but I'm assuming it works in a similar way to that, yes? Correct me if I'm wrong. They should have just reworked the veteran riflemen ability to do something besides give vet rather than replace it with Fire Up!
Rear echelon flamethrowers are...okay, I guess. It certainly isn't shit, but it would never be a factor in me picking rifle company over anything else. The Easy 8 is the only reason to ever use this doctrine anymore, and the Pershing exists now, so Easy 8s are less of a wow factor than they used to be.
Usf will still do fine. Now you just have to try instead of just doing something that coincides with recruiting riflemen.
That really isn't the topic, though. You could butcher every commander for USF, and they'd still perform "fine" with their stock units but that hardly makes the game more interesting or dynamic. |
I just played an AI match as OKW with the patch preview, and I've got to say OKW feels really good now. Maybe a little too good. I was able to get every tech building up in about ten minutes (obviously this is a tech rush, so no vehicles), but that could just be because the AI let me take a big chunk of the map. Still, imagine how fast King Tigers are going to come out in team games. I think tech costs might have to be adjusted, but that's all. I really like the new tech placements, too. Right now, OKW gets better tanks than Ost while also getting them earlier, while having full income. Yikes.
I like OKW having full resource income as it allows the faction to be balanced much more easily in the future, and makes them feel more like a flexible faction. I want OKW to be balanced around full income. The reduced income justified a lot of weird design choices about the faction. I was about to get livid, because I thought Relic meant they moved the King Tiger to a commander when I read the patch notes, but I'm glad to see that isn't the case. Crisis averted.
My volks absolutely smashed infantry sections now. Again, maybe that's just bad AI micro, but I have a feeling Tommies might be underpowered now just from what I saw. Maybe undo some of the nerfs to infantry sections? I'm pretty neutral on the kubel change. I fucking hated them before because of their garbage pathing making them unreliable MG platforms, but with them gone, dealing with blobs is going to be a massive headache without the flak halftrack.
As far as other factions go, I haven't tested. I appreciate what Relic is trying to do with getting rid of elite riflemen and elite troops, but I just don't see the point of Rifle Company now without it and flamethrowers. They just delegated the commander to "get nothing at all useful until Easy 8s" mode. And I hate timed infantry-munitions abilities, so I know already I'm never going to use that shitty Fire Up! ability. Ever. They might as well have just removed elite riflemen and replaced it with nothing. And really, same goes for Elite Troops Doctrine. I don't see anyone using it again. They might as well just remove it from the game.
Also, how many times are they going to nerf the bloody Crocodile, and well, the British in general? Yeah, the Croc used to be OP, but I don't think nerfing it every patch is necessary. Jesus. Relic isn't going to be satisfied until it spits hot bath water and dies to a panzerfaust. I also think heavy engineers shouldn't cost 70 munitions. 40-50 seems more than fair. |
Something I wish Relic had done with Soviets was to make conscripts legitimately bad, but make them cost, I don't know, 180 manpower. Then the special rifle command would have actual strelkovy (the "real" mainline infantry). That way, conscripts are just there for capping and to be meat shields for your support weapons while the actual infantry do the heavy lifting. Penals should be doctrinal. Way too niche of a unit to be stock, meanwhile the T34/85 is locked behind a commander. I'll never wrap my mind around that one.
I'd have made the Soviets pick a tech choice to unlock either the T34/85 or the SU-100, but not both. That way Relic could have the tech structure as it now (T3->T4), while stilll "forcing Soviets to make a tough choice" when it comes to having a better generalist tank vs. a better tank destroyer. You know, like the old layout, except better. |
I really like OKW's design, for the most part. I don't think a massive overhaul is needed, but there are some changes I'd like to see. The first and foremost is volks. For an army that's supposed to represent Germany's days of depleting manpower, why they're arguably the most blobby and spammy faction (besides maybe USF depending on individual playstyle) is beyond me. OKW infantry should be expensive but very strong to represent their tough, battle-hardened nature. Volks should be considerably stronger but cost more. Obers need to also be buffed back into non-suckiness. A fifth man would help to counteract the random mortar RNG squad wipes. The kubel is unreliable once the midgame starts; I'd just replace it with the MG34 (while also buffing it to not suck). They need a better manpower sink than volks, whatever it may be.
But the fuel penalty is the main reason OKW floats so much manpower. So much manpower, so little fuel. With the current state of OKW, I wouldn't even mind seeing the resource penalties gone. They have no reason to have it. I get why it's there thematically, but the playstyle of the faction is so unlike how Relic intended, they might as well get rid of it if they aren't going to take my above suggestions and make the infantry more expensive but better. The need to spend manpower without fuel, and bad infantry are preciesly why OKW blobs so much. |
The kubel is unreliable for one very important reason: pathing. The terrible pathing makes that stupid unit ten times less effective than it could be. Every time you're shooting at a squad and it moves one inch, the kubel decides it wants to rotate even though it has no reason to, so it loses its suppression. Then whenever you want to escape a hairy situation, it wants to do loop de loops and wide arcs for turns, which usually gets it killed. >.>
I really wish the MG34 was just stock. It sucks anyway, so it's not like it would be "OP." |