Unofficial OKW Redesign Thread

i likew this

Me too

So a lot of people really, really don't like the OKW tech structure (T1 medium tank, etc). So here's a kind of crazy idea to change it up that might fix a few problems. Please read it all before jumping to any conclusions.

A few initial changes:

- OKW starting fuel to 60 from 40.
- All three OKW tech buildings can be constructed at the beginning of the game. In other words, the Schwerer Panzer HQ no longer requires one of the other two buildings to be deployed before it can be constructed.
- Buildings no longer cost any fuel to construct.
- OKW trucks are now called in by the player at a cost of 200 manpower and 60 fuel each rather than being automatically dispatched every three minutes.
- No changes whatsoever to the HQ.

And then the OKW tech tree would be changed to something like the following:

Battlegroup HQ
By itself - LeIG
With one other building constructed - Obersoldaten/LeIG
With two other buildings constructed - Jagdpanzer IV/Obersoldaten/LeIG

Mechanized HQ
By itself - Flak Halftrack
With one other building constructed - Walking Stuka/Flak Halftrack
With two other buildings constructed - Panther tank/Walking Stuka/Flak Halftrack

Schwerer Panzer HQ
By itself - Puma
With one other building constructed - Panzer II Luchs/Puma
With two other buildings constructed - Panzer IV/Panzer II Luchs/Puma

The idea is that every OKW building would actually have three "tiers" worth of units, so to speak, that would be unlocked as additional buildings are constructed.

For example, a player who just has the Battlegroup Headquarters constructed would only be able to build the LeIG (in addition to their HQ units, obviously).

Now, if the player had both the Battlegroup and Mechanized Headquarters constructed (two buildings), they would unlock all the tier one and tier two units in those two buildings. That would mean that players would be able to build LeIGs, Obersoldaten squads, Flak Halftracks, and Walking Stukas.

Alternatively, if the OKW player opted to construct the Schwerer Panzer HQ instead of the Mechanized HQ (again, two buildings unlocking two tiers worth of units), they'd have access to LeIGs, Obersoldaten squads, Pumas, and Luchs tanks.

So then if a player opted to build the Mechanized and Schwerer Panzer HQs (but not the Battlegroup HQ), they'd have access to Flak Halftracks, Pumas, Luchs tanks, and Walking Stukas.

Having all three tech buildings up would give you access to every OKW unit.

Obviously there would be some issues if you could build the Flak Truck first (because of the gun locking down large amounts of territory) and I worry that OKW tanks would arrive too late, but this scheme would solve a few issues (like the Luchs arriving a bit too late and the Jagdpanzer IV arriving too early) and make OKW teching a bit more rational. Also, it's extremely flexible.

this

That actually sounds really fun. Maybe have the disguised volks not appear on the minimap?

You could make them always camouflaged, to simulate US Troops being unable to tell they're fake until they're close enough? Also they shouldn't be called Volksgrenadiers, the troops that were disguised were English-speaking Commandos from a Panzer Brigade. Maybe Recon Commando would be a better name. The Supply Lines ability sounds OP though.

What's the point?

it would be some nice flavour. Crappy volksturm armed with VG rifles and Italian/Hungarian leftovers contrasted with elite vets (obers, falls etc)

Since everyone is just throwing suggestions at the wall:

Volksgrenadiers: 5 men with normal Stielhandgranaten, upgrades to 3x MP 40's and Panzerfaust available at second truck deployment for 60 munitions. MP 40's have a similar profile to Conscript variant, and Panzerfaust does not trigger criticals.

Tank-Destroyer Squad: 3 man squad with a single Panzerschreck, using Panzerfusilier Kar 98 and models. May have explosive damage resist due to their role.

Remove Munitions Penalty and replace with Manpower Penalty. Germany was lacking Troops, Fuel, and Vehicles, but had ample stocks of munitions.

I'd fix the title if I were you, it's a bit misleading given that there is nothing official (drawn from the publisher or developer) about it. I understand the intention of calling it official to get better replies, but keep it distanced from associating with developers until we know they're involved.

Who knows, maybe they will ant to make an official OKW changes thread in future.

I'd fix the title if I were you, it's a bit misleading given that there is nothing official (drawn from the publisher or developer) about it. I understand the intention of calling it official to get better replies, but keep it distanced from associating with developers until we know they're involved.

Who knows, maybe they will ant to make an official OKW changes thread in future.

They mentioned in their stream that a potential redesign is on the table.

I'm aware they're looking to redesign the faction, but leave ti being "official" out of it until things become official. Otherwise continue.

i like this

It's definitely an original idea, but it's got some critical design flaws.

That is an extreme nerf to OKW that would make it near impossible to play with. If they lose a single truck during set up, the game is immediately over. If they lose one afterward, they can no longer build tanks. And yet to access a basic Panzer IV, they'd need to gain the time equivalent of 473 fuel, or 412 with conversion active, although that's an impossible number to achieve because your first 20 fuel will be without conversion.

Ostheer's first Panzer IV can hit the field after 315 fuel. Both calculations are assuming no other vehicles are fielded, not even a Kubelwagen. Ostheer could buy a Puma or StuG and still field their Panzer first. A fast Sherman or Cromwell would be impossible to counter with any armoured vehicles.

In summery:

I do like the general idea. However, as others have said, there are issues with the current implementation, namely

1. Flak HQ at cutoff at 3 mins = lose
2. Lose 1 truck = lose game 100%
3. Tanks come way too late

This thread is kind of crazy.

OKW has been nerfed heavily in the past few patches both through direct and indirect nerfs (ie, power creep of allied vet) and people really think a redesign is going to make the game any better?

People weren't complaining about lack of supression back when OKW was strong because they had decent infantry killing power back then, and now ppl think OKW has severe design problems so that we have to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

ATM, I'm telling you - if OKW had better elite troops and their vet to 5 wasn't as gimped as it now is, people won't have the kinds of problems they're having with OKW at the moment. FTR, I'm perfectly fine where the Volkgren is at.

I feel atm its more of a case of rather than design, OKW being completely powercreeped out of the game at the moment, successive buffs to USF and now Brits along with nerfs of OKW elite infantry (like Obers) ends up causing the issues we have. Armour combat when it comes to OKW is okay at the moment.

The only real design issue I have at the moment is that production of units are stuck to tech buildings... which was perfectly fine... until Commando Air Superiority became a thing. That and Mechanised tech in 1v1 never gets teched first, but thats not too big a problem compared to how OKW has been power creeped out of the game.

See more about what I think about OKW:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/44241/state-of-balance-thematic-problems-in-coh2

People weren't complaining about lack of supression back when OKW was strong because they had decent infantry killing power back then, and now ppl think OKW has severe design problems so that we have to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

People have been complaining about their main infantry being shitty Panzerschreck carriers since release. If there's a chance this can be changed so they can get some real Infantry and not be reliant on Panzerschreck spam, I say fuckin' go for it.

People have been complaining about their main infantry being shitty Panzerschreck carriers since release. If there's a chance this can be changed so they can get some real Infantry and not be reliant on Panzerschreck spam, I say fuckin' go for it.

I don't mind if they are just Panzerschreck carriers tbh, and they're not bad when it comes to holding the line until more support comes - thats their role in the earlygame at least. We don't really need volks to be generalist infantry, especially when Falls, Obers, fusilleers, and with higher vet, sturmpioneer should be mopping the floor when it comes to infantry. The main problem is that they're not doing that, so it leaves OKW very underwhelmed when it comes to Infantry AI.

Why do people want a "redesign"?

OKW design is great, the most unique of all, with the trucks, the vet 5, etc..

However, as stated by many, the current meta of small nerfs to the OKW and some buffs to allies (mainly USA) made the game as it is.

i like the principle of this.

and add one more truck that is solely about upgrading units.

the idea would be a great starting point for a rework but i have a few objections to it:
- flak hq from the bat that would be just op on a fuel/ cutoff point - id like some fixed tech progression for okw ( med - mech - flak )
- calling trucks manualy is great
- some of the unit placement i dont rly agree ( partialy the problem that okw unit roster just overlaps in roles )
T0
spios/ volks/ kubel/ raketen
T1
ISG/ IR Ht/ flak ht/ P4 (locked behind 2 trucks)
T2
puma/ p2/ obers (lmg locked till 3 trucks)/ jp4 (locked behind 2 trucks)
T3
stuka / panther / KT (requires whole tech to be alive)
- obers should go into t0 but require a tech building ( stats and pricing the same )
- kubel should get better stats but go up in price to 30 fuel
- panther stats should be more in line with comet/ pershing ( cruiser tank with 200 fuel price - so it wont overshadow p4 )
- kt buff that fatty finaly and move to t3 hardcap at 1
- rework the vet stats ( vet 5 often is worse than vet3 on other armies )
- general buffs to less used units
- fix isg ( drop the supression crap )
- keep resource penalties
- hit volks with a popcap / upkeep nerf ( leave stats / upgrades as they are )

I really like OKW's design, for the most part. I don't think a massive overhaul is needed, but there are some changes I'd like to see. The first and foremost is volks. For an army that's supposed to represent Germany's days of depleting manpower, why they're arguably the most blobby and spammy faction (besides maybe USF depending on individual playstyle) is beyond me. OKW infantry should be expensive but very strong to represent their tough, battle-hardened nature. Volks should be considerably stronger but cost more. Obers need to also be buffed back into non-suckiness. A fifth man would help to counteract the random mortar RNG squad wipes. The kubel is unreliable once the midgame starts; I'd just replace it with the MG34 (while also buffing it to not suck). They need a better manpower sink than volks, whatever it may be.

But the fuel penalty is the main reason OKW floats so much manpower. So much manpower, so little fuel. With the current state of OKW, I wouldn't even mind seeing the resource penalties gone. They have no reason to have it. I get why it's there thematically, but the playstyle of the faction is so unlike how Relic intended, they might as well get rid of it if they aren't going to take my above suggestions and make the infantry more expensive but better. The need to spend manpower without fuel, and bad infantry are preciesly why OKW blobs so much.

Volks cost to 250, base rec accuracy to 0.9. Incendiary nade to sturms, sturm nade to volks vet1 (vet1 rec accuracy stays the same).
Manpower income reduction is 2 per popcap (instead of 1.5).
Fuel, muni income applies gradually as pop increases, max penalty is the same as it is now.
Obers and Walking Stuka swapped, lmg34 upgrade requires another HQ. Obers cost may need to be adjusted.
Some convenience changes to kubel (something like lockdown mode?).
Trucks now cost 150 MP and can be made at main base (build time 60 seconds), tier costs lowered by 150 MP to compensate.

Remove penalties , increase unit cost to ostheer counterparts , increase teching cost. Make kubel doctrinal harrasment vehicle , mg batlegroppe (medic) in HQ , increase voks cost to 250 MP, remove panzrshreck , give them mp44 and at grenade by upgrade.

Give stum mp40 and stg by upgrade.

fix halftrack bug

move infrared halftrack to special ops.(instaed of radio silence , its useless)


Remove vet system.

give them good 3 vet buffs

And maybe some more thinks. Its hard and it will need a lot of testing , i cant say you best army composition right now without testing because it would be iether OP or UP

It seems Volks, Kubel, and teching/vet 5 are core issues.

volks aren't really good at anything atm.theyre better in team games tho,due to the extra munitions you get,so you can throw more incendiary nades .But in 1v1 they are just meh.

Most of the light vehicles of OKW are unaffordable due to fuel costs,people simply wait for a jp4.
A manpower based anti-blob unit like stuh42/wirbelwind would be perfect for OKW midgame to not get steamrolled.