Profile of OrangePest

I would really like to hear from BP protectors, how would they indeed react if Maus, or alright, lets be more "resonable" one of these units were add into the game:

Tiger conversation into SPG, with a gun close to B4 in calibre.
Maybe Panther 2? Which is basically a panther with Tiger armor.
Or we can go for, Flakpanzer 3. Basically a Panther with flak gun.
Flakpanzer IV also could be an option.

They all didn't even hit the service, were prototypes, but hey, we have BP which also didn't, so what difference does it make?

After that we can consider adding, weapon prototypes, just like CoD did.

So I would actually suggest to stop trying to counter authenticity argument with gameplay argument and actually use your brain to think about what untied hands of Relic might add unto the game, when they are green lighted to add units which were never used IRL to begin with.

Idk, go and look for Rob's Realism mod for Men of War 2. It basically has almost all units\tanks immaginable while staying true to "if it was used, it can be added". Each faction (soviets, german, UK, USA and even Guards for soviets and SS for germans as sub faction), have like 20+ vehicles.

CoH factions in total have around 10, yet, instead of using real options, Relic goes for fan-fiction

Personally, the BP fulfills the role of a "KT" essentially. an endstage heavy tank with comparable performance to the tiger 1 (or 2 doesn't matter)

Also to add on to this, if factions like Japan are to get added. then prototype units don't just become unnecessary, but they'd become mandatory to make a cohesive faction. That said that's another debate.

Overall I'm of the belief of the bending historical accuracy for the sake of balance. Sometimes that means giving a faction that normally would not have access to certain tools, access to those tools.

As for those examples... personally i wouldn't give too much of a shit, but none of them really fill a particular niche that cannot be filled with the standard stuff. That said, we already have had sturmtigers,bergetigers,chaffes,hellcats the size of tiger and a bunch of other shit that got bent to fit the historical narratives

Ultimately. coh2 is an arcade game that priorities the flash over accuracy aspects. Though despite that it tries to retain authenticity, in that it's meant to *feel* like a real battlefield and ww2. And you can still do that with things that aren't meant to be there. (Even disregarding the BP, the chaffe wasn't ever in Italy either IIRC so if the BP gets cut why should the chaffe be allowed?)

I agree with most of the post, but I have to point out that this the way of thinking that lead to power creep.

People complaint that conscript do not scale well compared to Penal so conscripts got buffed and now people its the other way round...

One should simply redesign things with:
either
create different play styles with Penal as cheap SMG cannon fodder units and conscripts as defensive infatry
or
Replace Penal with cheap AT infatry in T1 and make Penal a doctrinal unit available to NKVD armies so that there 3 types of armies, Guards/shocks/NKVD.

They cost more than conscripts, they require a specific tech. AND on top of that then require and additional upgrade to even get close to competeing with the worst mainline in the game (volks), and then to make matters even worse, its the slowest opening in the game.

its perfectably acceptable for a unit with that high of an entry barrier to scale well.

Black Prince is probably so normies can have some cool big tank to make. And the brit faction in general is made for people new to the game that do not have micro yet. Their stuff is always OP and requires no management.

Question for me is should Coh3 have MORE giant tanks or less. I often hear people talk about vCoh because it had more light vehicle play. Should Coh3 really stretch out the early-middle game rather than rush out some I-win tanks?

The black prince is there to be a tiger equivalent, probably for balancing purposes. I still remember USF release, no heavies vs tigers and KTs, made the late game brutal especially in metas where heavies dominated (which is a solid 70-80% of the metas up until 2019 essentially)

As for coh1, the early-mid game should be stretched out, but people don't know this fun fact, the timing for a greyhound is 7-8 minutes. an AC can come out at like 5-6. The timings are actually arguably even faster than coh2s, its just there's no timer so people trick themselves into thinking it was longer. (The even longer answer is, in certain matchups, the early mid game never ends for US, as the teaching was designed in a really poor way, where once you committed to t3, which is the optimal tier 70% of the time, you basically could not reach t4 unless the game went on forever, instead you just spam snipers and at guns against PE. Wehr is slightly different, but most of the time it comes down to the call in battlegroup.)

Personally, i believe all factions should have heavies that are comparable to some extent, with assymetrical benefits, just don't want something like... the Churchill vs tiger, where one is basically just a worse version in every imaginable way except hp to the other.

Ah, that's cute. When there is nothing left to argue (Bergetiger was a good trump card that was beaten), then you decided to compare soft and square - game mechanics and the canon of the Second World War.

You complain about authenticity, coh has never been a truly authentic game. The bergetiger wasn't even in France lol. It was found in Italy but that's beside the point. At what points do we draw the line, -just- units? That's ludicrous.

You drew comparisons of having the black prince in coh3 as a some sort of thing that all cards should be off the table and anything goes... but that doesn't go for the absurd abilities that exist in the game. The ability to mold and repair armor, bring wrecks back in the manner of seconds. For artillery to be precision bombing tanks with literal pinpoint accuracy. Are all extremely inauthentic and ridiculous. Why are these allowed to be exceptions but a *single* unit, that never saw combat (in a game with regenerating corpses, men that can go from the brink of death to life, tools that had no more than 10 of them, experimental and extremely rare units that act as the main toolset of a given faction) Is even more insane to me.

I mean with wrecks that come out as brand new after being completely destroyed is just insane, might as well have wounded soldiers recover in the matter of minutes.... oh that's been done, well we might as well have units that can teleport into previously garrisoned structures... oh that's been done.
Well at this point we may as well have nazi zombies that regenerate and come back from the dead when they're killed!

See what I'm saying?

Coh has already done this though...coh1, bergetiger, the thing that there only existed one of and had dubious claims on what it was actually built to do? Of which you can build multiple lmao?