I've noticed this even in 2v2s... despite what allies do, their all round rubbish AT means that they haven't got a hope against late game German armour spam. Against a German player who supports a KT for example, there simply isn't anything you can do.
It's a weird dichotomy in that Germans can easily have the best tanks... and counter enemy tanks the most effectively. whilst the allies have the worse tanks across the board and the worse means to counter them. It's been there since day 1 of CoH2 and it's a disgraceful state of affairs. In 1v1s it might work. But for the rest of us plebs who happen to enjoy the social aspect of the game as well. It often times is just simply frustrating.
I've been through games today where multiple squads have been wiped out by me and my ally but we've still be stomped by axis armour late game.
One particular game we wiped 2 sturmpios in a single engagement. Meant nothing. My teammate was a bit of a blockhead with Soviet industry, but even still. By the end of it we were facing Ostwinds, multiple p4s and a KT with 2 (heavily vetted) Shermans. And we obviously lost.
The effectiveness of tanks against infantry hardly helps. In particular units such as the Tigers. I've seen them absolutely maul AT guns (who just bounce off them) with little damage taken in return. Coupled with the effectiveness of the Stuka in decrewing weapons teams with ease, it's small wonder we're seeing complaints about the effectiveness of medium tanks, which are the only effective counter to heavy armour and even then its more mutually assured destruction then anything.
Allies have the best AI, so them also having the best AT would make them unbeatable. That you only had 2 Shermans out and the opponents had more than 4 tanks is more on you than them. What were you doing with your fuel? OKW actually has the worst AT in the game. Volks with Shreks die at an appalling rate and take forever to reload, Raketenwerfer has small rage and arc of fire and pathetic HP.
Once again, it is very possible for allies to prevent a KT from hitting the field by utilizing their superior early game to deny resources. Allies who allow the game to go long enough for KT need to realize that they need counters for it prepared. While this is tougher for Americans, the Soviets at least have the ISU152 that out-ranges the KT and the IS-2 which can absorb a lot of damage. |
In my opinion the only solution would be to reward units depending on their role. So an expensive vehicle like the Ostwind should get reasonable experience from killing infantry, since this is what you build the Ostwind for and not for destroying light vehicles. A Tiger on the other hand would still get more experience for attacking tanks, as this should be more challenging for a Tiger, even if it is designed to fight both.
Yes, this is what I would like to see implemented. The OKW units are extremely one dimensional and requiring AI units to vet up by doing damage to tanks is just bad design. |
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Volks and Raketen are really it, it has mediocre AI, so at least it won't squad wipe like the ISU. The King Tiger can take it on, but of course you actually have to get the KT out.... |
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@ThoseDeafMutes
I understand where you are coming from, but it is the same way as the OKW vs Soviets. You don't have a lot of good counters to early snipers/maxims and so you build AI and arty to fight them only have a early T34 come in and smash all your AI since you don't get enough to build decent AT. Or right when you start pushing back the Soviets since they haven't built tanks all game, ISU drives in and starts one-shot wiping all your stuff. In a 2v2 the soviets can each pick one of these strategies and make it a nightmare for Axis players. |
Isn't veterancy tied to unit cost and/or HP?
I believe so, therefore tanks give more Vet than infantry, but pure AI vehicles suffer due to having a Vet bar to fill that is very large like an AT vehicle, but only doing significant damage to infantry which doesn't fill the bar very fast. |
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The faction's Veterancy gain shouldn't be reliant on "Your ally in other game modes can use Elite troops to boost your Vet Level, so you should gain it at a turtle's pace on other modes to compensate". The fix there might be to make it so only the player with elite troops can use it on his own troops. :/
And like I said it is not necessarily that I want all units to kill 10 enemy units and instantly hit Vet 5, but rather that some of their on-screen-button abilities not be locked behind almost unobtainable Vet walls. |
I don't think the trucks actually have to be alive to build it. I've seen players get it while not currently having all buildings.
You are correct, it is like the USF buildings, you just have to build the officer once for the units in the building to be avaliable. You only need your HQ alive to build the KT. |
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The OKW has 5 levels of Veterancy for its units, in exchange it gets 33% less fuel than other factions. The problem I am finding is that some OKW units gain the Veterancy at a reasonable rate (Volks and Paznerfusiliers gain it the easiest), but many of their units get 80+ kills and barely hit Veterancy 1. Take for example the Walking Stuka, has anyone ever seen the Incendiary Rockets (they require Vet 4 by the way)?
I believe that the Veterancy gain for some of the OKW units needs to be looked at or some of the unique abilities that are locked behind Vet 3+ walls need to be moved down to vet 1 or 2 (and move some of them like Puma smoke up to Vet 1). |
ISU-152 can do the same.
This^.
that is faction design at work they have no medium tanks (that aren't doctrinal) and the heaviest tank they have from a doctrine is a command panther.
I think you forgot the Jagdtiger, although it is strictly AT.
The King Tiger has a lot of armor and high damage, BUT it is slow as fuck and the turret rotation is the slowest in the game. The RoF isn't that great either and the range and LoS is pretty terrible. It is a tough nut to crack, but a very slow nut with poor sight and range. |
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I find the Shock trooper's grenade:
A. The hardest to dodge (the throw and fuse are really fast)
B. The best damage dealing/squad wipiest
C. Their unit health is so high that they can stick around after the grenade has killed/retreated the enemy squad and keep advancing
Obers and Falls die REALLY fast when they get close to Allies late game infantry so really throwing grenades with them never happens for me. The Volks grenade is a pathetic joke that tickles most all other starting infantry. The infiltration grenades are decent, but really not spectacular(I could see a cost increase to 20 munis). They really are the only decent OKW grenade for the cost, although the Panzerfusilier's grenade isn't bad with a large AoE and at least they can throw it fairly far(otherwise not running into point blank range of late game Allies infantry). |
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