No, just no. Teching cost is something you spend one time in the game, it won't help/disadvantage you throughout the game. In addition, OKW cannot boost its fuel income by building caches. If it converts amo to fuel, that will oblige it to chose a particular developement path, that cannot be changed, and the shortages will be simple doubled: less fuel penalty, but amo penalty in addition.
I disagree, volks and raketen do not protect you from a large scale armored assault. They will produce some damage, kill one -two tanks, but the result will be in Allied favor. In addition, they lack the mobility and efficiency of a concentrated vehicle force. Volks have one schreck, not two. Raketen has an embarassing range. Sorry, but no.
Not sure about that. I saw games lost by OKW with KT alive at the end of the game. If not killed - which is hard but not impossible - it cand effinetly be staled, due to its range and because it's sow.
Scavanging does not provide the amount of resources needed. Non-fuel base AT it's easy to be counterplayed by balistic weapons and even by tanks! Forward base it's a very high risk investment.
1. Forward buildings emplacement wich greatly expose them to AT and balistic fire. A forward T2 means many times a death sentence. A forward T4 is benefic and risky in the same time due to reasons stated above. On the other hand, if you want to be efficient, you are OBLIGED to put AT LEAST T4 forward.
2. Lack of enough AT middle game. In comparison, pzgrens + pak40 are more efficient than volks + raketen. And Ostheer doesn't have a fuel penalty! You can't be flexible, you need a puma beside those just to keep the pace.
3. Please count the number of tanks OKW build in a game. If someone tells me that 1 KT plus raketen plus volks can keep pace with a couple of zis guns, 4-5 T34s and an IS2 (just for example) I would tell him to think again.
4. Mines. Does anyone use mines with OKW? Maybe, but you have to reduce other upgrades for infantry and don't use off-map arty. Any mine planted will hold you back related to other investemnts that you need to do.
5. Lack of a serious medium tank. Puma is ok, no doubt, but it's not a tank, it's a tank replacement. It's thin and requires alot of micro.
From my experience, the player who relies on infantry, team weapons and ONE monster-tank will lose in most of cases before one player wich relies on infantry + alot of medium tanks. I even remember a 1v1 game that I had as a soviet, wich is extremely suggestive. As for AT,my opponent built one Elefant and several Pgrens. He lost everything in front of an aggressive attack composed from 4 T34s.
This.^
Also the Munitions increase was due to taking too long to get panzershreks and early M3 being even more devastating than it currently is to early game OKW. Maxim and sniper spam is still a big problem for OKW. |
T34 vs OKW? What?
The army with super fast Pumas, Core infantry all packing shrecks, T0 AT guns and soviet equivalent mines?
Wrecked how, exactly? You do mean wrecked T34's, right?
Panzershreks got nerfed too...
Maxims on fuel make getting Puma a real challenge and by that time Soviets usually have Zis or 2 T34s to counter the one Puma. |
Against Ostheer I can see the T34 buff being a good thing, but against OKW it just wrecks them. Maxims/Snipers into T34 are still incredibly effective. I am not sure if the reload buff would be good for balance... |
Thread: 4v419 Sep 2014, 12:00 PM
In the long run I believe that competitive 1v1 and 2v2, with semi-playable 3v3 and 4v4 will sustain this game over only balancing for 4v4. The problem with only setting the game up for 4v4 is that you have to get 8 people into a single RTS game and unlike a FPS that is a lot to ask. The reason being that a single RTS match can take 1-2 hours for a single match and that can get boring for people who lose ground early and then spend an hour trying to get back ground only to lose in the end. You also have the problem of trying to coordinate with 3 other people who need to manage several units at once and one sub-par player can lead to a very frustrating experience. I believe 4v4 can be playable, but I don't think it will ever be as playable as people want due to how CoH2 is structured. You are meant to get to the late game by at least 20-30 minutes in and I just believe that abusive early strats will reign if you extend that time by lowering resource rates. Do you really want to face Maxim spam for 30-40 minutes with no tanks due to the fuel rate being significantly lower? |
Racketenwerefer weak? Oh you poor delusional fools.
Go look at the penetration stats. And then all the damage bonuses and pen bonuses it gets with vet.
All you need to do is keep it safe with Volks or PanzerFus. Just like any AT gun. There's no AT gun in the game than can deal with a circling tank. And the short range is fixed at vet 2 anyway (which it hits extra fast because it is so cheap)
It used to be okay with that, but the recent Vet nerf really hurt its ability to Vet into usefulness. Also as I stated before I really see this as supposed to be OKWs answer to early vehicles, but it performs poorly as that. Good micro-ed early M3s aren't counter-able until at least 2 Shreks (180 munitions) which can really be annoying and game breaking for OKW.
Although if a change ever comes I hope it isn't until the Kubel is toned down, because right now it is an OP annoying strategy to face. |
http://www.coh2.org/replay/24184/esports
http://www.coh2.org/replay/24250/me-breaking...brad.
Basically Breaking Brad being a dick ingame and on the forums
But seriously, not the best way to represent Relic. It is good though that Relic is play testing stuff. |
You know if they added the Pershing and it sucked, I bet everyone wanting it would turn around and whine about how such a worthless unit is in the game... |
Yeah what Arclyte said, the Raketenwerfer is weak because OKW is expected to spam Panzerschrecks and rely on the Puma, Jagdpanzer IV, and Panther for theirs hard AT. The Raketen is just another supplementary unit in an army of supplementary units and crutches.
I see it as the "Relic Answer" to early Ally vehicles, but it sucks against them too much. With the abilities I suggested, it wouldn't really lend itself to anything OP late game, but would at least be a reason to build it. |
The OKW Raketenwerfer seems to be the most kill-able unit in the game. Any kind of mortar, grenade, stray tank shot, stray bullet, or rock either kills 2 models or wipes it. So lets look at the pros and cons of this unit:
Pros:
Tier 0 AT gun
Good damage
Good Penetration
Can garrison in buildings
Can retreat
Cons:
Very Low Health
Poor range
Poor arc of fire
Poor accuracy
Set-up time
My idea is not necessarily to buff its health (at least until Kubel is toned down), but to give it one ability to broaden its usefulness. Although the Raketen can be made early it usually only gets one shot off on anything before the target leaves its arc of fire. Early allied vehicles can easily micro around it and wipe the squad from behind. Therefore what if they gave it a Munitions ability to fire a engine-damaging rocket? This would give incentive to make it for OKW as an early vehicle disabling device. The other option would be to give it an anti-infantry grenade Munitions ability that would allow it to at least disrupt early infantry play giving players a reason to make one.
The fact of the matter is, no one really builds this unit, it at least before gained Vet quickly, but they nerfed that, so what about giving it more functionality? What does the community think? |
A great match with me and Liam with lots of side play and a grand struggle across the central point which culminated in my King Tiger plus Liam's Tiger which I recovered versus a Vet 3 and Vet 0 ISU-152. |