Soviets also have t-34/85 which is a excellent medium tank,the pair can swarm and kill the tiger..especially with mark target.
With is-2 and t-34/85 even without isu soviets have 2 excellent options which can be supplemented by su-85s from the back or m4c shermans which is another good medium tank.
When ostheer is doing without ELefant,and relies only on tiger as its lategame tank which is basically equal or even slightly inferior to is-2 i don't see why soviets need both,plus the superb medium tanks call-in.is-2 is such a massive pain in the ass with its armor,if there's 2 they seem immortal.Even KT can't always penetrate them.
Jagdtiger-i agree,isu,elefant,jagd must be balanced together..leaving 1 while others are nerfed out breaks it.This is why i proposed make them 1 builadble at 15 cp and give them back the old range.1 godly unit comes very late,so not an auto appearnace every game..but a fearful presence with high risk and reward potential.
King tiger - So many soviet players fight this head on.Because they have gotten used to penetrating tiger and panther at close ranges frontally,many try this and fail badly.Its turret weakness is rarely exploited .Thing is this thing is so costly by the time OKW gets this allies can have 4 of their medium call-ins if their unit preservation was good.If they can't swarm its tortoise turret with that thats bad.
The difference between stock and call-in armor is too large in coh 2.
don't forget that penetration isn't even guaranteed against tiger with t34 85 nor su85.
you'll also have a pak with stun round most likely.
Tiger seems to do much better against infantry than any soviet tank exept maybe kv8. Heck recently i've felt like every shot from every panzer managed to land and kill 2 men or more, even on the move. Add the mgs and have fun.
As for KT turret weakness, it disappear with some vet, not so hard to achieve with such killing power, and before that, you can even negate it at least partially if your turn the KT at the same time, which will let you keep up with non vet 3 t34.
Plus the support from shreck volks and raketen, who will always penetrate.
base t3476 however, struggles to penetrate even pz4, so KT is really hard to kill.
Even su85 needs a lot o time because of shots bouncing. |
This is an absolute requirement. We are social creatures don't you know!
well i use the chat 
too bad |
Yes, we have to forget that this was actually the truth in WW2... only that soviets got 10 times more of everything germans had. The zerg army.
Currently, there is no comparison between soviet howitzer and the ostheer howitzer. The first is better, no doubt. But... where is the 17K18?
are you saying mp40 was better than ppsh ? stuka better than sturmovik ? etc.
Plus you don't really get to zerg the germans in coh 2 |
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if only t34 or t70 could get overdrive like m3 and m5, they might actually have a chance of escaping blitzing axis armor.
Right now they are pretty much slower than p4 when you account for vet ability and pathing |
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I'd be interested, but i can't use a mic most of the time... well more like... at all. |
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i've also had units being suppressed on retreat through mg/kubel fire.
Needless to say they got wiped. So effin stupid. |
Funny, cos you arrive at the same conclusion I did.
T34 was better off before with better AI and a valid Ram.
Yet I must insist it was Sov whine for a PIV mirror that led to the current compromise.
Sov opinion at the time was resolutely for a PIV equivalent.
As I ssaid, at the time many Sov posters seemed to be under the ridiculous presumption that somehow T34 could retain its AI vs smaller units, have equal AT, a strong Ram, and still somehow cost less.
It was a ludicrous expectation, but they didnt càre.
We see the result now. A T34 that used to have a strong Ram function, strong AI, and ok AT vs T3 armor, at cheap cost, instead changed to a unit with equal AI, crippled Ram and slightly better AT, at cheap cost.
The whine misfired completely, and here we are now, with Sov even more dependanton callins- for AT because the quintessential asymmetric element of Ram was nerfed, for a small AT increase, and an AI equivalence that PIV can beat with Pintle upgrade, measured and benchmakred against thr fact that T34 was always going to remain cheaper than PIV, and hence aleays less AT capable.
Ost never had a case vs Ram. Fausts sufficed, as well as Blitz, to escape. Not to mention Rams rather buggy nature. Those Ostfambois who argued Ram was Op, where as wrong as those Sov who wanted T34 to match PIV in AT.
Id completely endorse Rams return as it was with the current AI/AT spread, at its current cost, with a token 10Muni cost for Ram.
The AI is naturalised, the AT is adequate at cost, but the Ram was the hidden value in Sov asymmetric alignment that needs to be reurned, to keep them valid as a tier unit, rather than relying on call-ins.
And i must insist you are making completely untrue statements. Without ever backing them up.
It was the Axisplayers who were always furious that their more expensive tanks could get disabled by a cheaper one ramming them. Hence why at first, they had ram only work in a straight line and not follow the target if it turned around.
Meanwhile, soviets did point out that ram didn't trigger reliably, and that T34 in tank fights was at an extreme disadvantage, being basicly almost useless vs tigers and needing a lot of help to beat a lone p4.
but everyone considered ram to be a ludicrous and stupid ability, because it basicly sacrified a tank for some nice crits, but made t34 immonilized and without weapons.
Soviet T3 being so bad against armor could hardly stand back then, and still doesn't stand that well today, when soviets are forced to chose between t3 and 4. |
Yes, on paper you are right. But in my early OKW games I used to start with T2 (assuming that T2 means the building with jagdpanzer, leigh and searchlight HT), thinking that raketen and schrecks will supliment any AT need untill mid-late game. Reality proved I was wrong, volks are not panzergrenadiers and raketenverfer has a such small range and it's easily killable (has nothing to do with the PAK 40). To explain better: compare the binom 1 schrecked pzgrens squad + 1 pak 40 with the binom 1 schrecked volks squad + 1 raketen and tell me which is the best.
In addition, from middle game start, you cannot relay on infantry or team crew based AT weapons like volks and raketen, you need vehicles.
In fact the most reliable build is starting with T3 and Puma, then, depending on situation you continue by building T2 or T4 (T4 being the sign for an agressive play).
well on the other hand, raketen + volk is much cheaper than pgren + pak isn't it ? you could probably add another raketen or volk for the price.
I've seen reketen die fast, but most of the time i think they have decent life expectation if not flanked, combined with the retreat capabilities.
Plus OKW has cheaper mines than ostheer doesn't it ?
Thing is, if the OKW has had decent fuel, a puma is most likely nearby + 1-2 rak +2 volks.
And the most effective soviet vehicles against infatry are the most fragile: m3 and t70. It's just easy to lose those to bad pathing.
T34 performance ranges from great to "WTF are you guys drunk?" Sometimes I kill several soldiers with a tank shot, and i've been able to squish many ennemies including entire ober squad, other time infantry men get repulsed from the t34 by some kind of magnetism and the gun can't hit shit. |
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we could also consider increasing the delay before the thing starts suppressing.
Now let's just hope Relic doesn't do all of it and nerf it to uselessness. |
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You seem to be forgetting the fact that the t34 was much faster than the panthers on cross-country/not on roads.
Anyhow T34 were mostly used as exploitation tools, exploiting a breach made by other divisions, then ravaging the rear of the German army: logistics, rear echelon, airfields, etc.
Sadly the increased mobility isn't represented in game. Panzers get blitzkrieg at vet 1, while t34 get "capture territory" which doesn't help them survive. You need vet 3 so they actually learn how to drive.
My sources are the books from Jean Lopez, but they're in French |
France
Kamfrenchie
Shelling
Relic Entertainment
보드카 중대 
Heartless Jäger 
