Have any of you tried tracking down and killing arty vehicles?
oh god here we go again... |
If Katyusha had 2 minutes cd, costed 130 fuel to produce, smaller range and had tighter AoE I wouldn't mind it to stay the way it is provided damage to the base building was adjusted. Ambient building damage can be the same.
seriously, don't you think that's a slightly overthetop insane nuke massive nerf ?
we're talking about a unit made of paper, with very little penetration, costing 300+ mp and 12 pop.
Unless it becomes a calliope in terms of barrage, what you propose mean no one will use it.
I mean come on, some of you talk as if it was a long range sturmtiger.
And even it doesn't take 2 minutes to reload i think. |
You don't need to predict anything with Katyusha. You place your targeting circle and stuff dies. You can repeat this after a while or you can build another one and add to the injury.
You don't need to come as close as with Stuka as well.
hyperbole much ? you aren't guaranteed to hit unless we're talking very close proximity. and you shouldn't take more than 1-2 volley bfore you're out of the zone.
Anyhow, my point isn't that katyusha isn't overperforming, but people saying stuka is absolutely fine and rarely wipes are just exagerrating.
Katyusha isn't as reliable as a retreat killer as the stuka. It's also very clumsy, and if you're not directly facing your target, it will take it a while to reposition and fire, so hitting units on the move isn't as much of a nobrainer as you make it sound.
Someone else mentionned howitzer and that katyushas are the reason we don't see those, i don't think it's exhaustive
Howitzer seems to take much more pop and ukpeep, and also can't move or change their facing in a decent time.
It's arerly good value for money imo. |
I understand that this thread has more or less degraded into a stuka vs katyusha debate, and though I don't think it should be the focus, I realize why that's what the topic is. So with that disclaimer in place.
If we look at these two units separately, which I believe is necessary as they are two different factions functioning against two different enemies, I think we can get to real discussion.
The reason so many people are baffled by the katyusha's effectiveness is honestly, how devastating it can be to the German armies, but more specifically OKW. I'll focus on OKW and RU as that seems appropriate lately. With economic strains, veterency emphasis, and elite unit preservation in mind, the katyusha is simply far too punishing. I haven't played a game since the update where either myself, an opponent, or an ally has not preemtively retreated at the sound of katyusha fire and STILL lost a full squad (often vetted) outright within the first wave. There's still three more. This also isn't considering the issue that OKW is built on a foundation of building decisions. Currently, the katyusha makes that decision for you. In two waves of barrages, whatever truck you deployed is gone.
Now, a lot of people have argued that "well, that's your fault for being aggressive, pay the price." That MIGHT be valid if that was the only realistic way of uprooting these bases. But we all know it's not. Furthermore, this is not just a unit that destroys bases, it goes from blob control on an extreme level to killing off a single squad attempting to capture a point.
The stuka is a separate topic.
The stuka is useful for blob control, and while yes, there is a strong chance a few units may be wiped depending on the group's size, unless the units are marching in a very careful and narrow line on a very predictable path, you're not going to have the same effect as if a katyusha was firing on that same collective. THAT right there, is not a problem -- the problem is how horribly strong it is currently. Let me repeat that. I do think that if you had two of the exact same groups moving in the exact same manner and hit directly by both a katyusha and a stuka, the katyusha should be awarded the higher death toll. I don't like homogenization. I like when differentiating units have differentiating strengths and weaknesses.
The stuka, I feel, shines in very certain scenarios. Clearing out buildings and hitting a set up line. However, when a line, perfectly centered, is squared up perfectly and fired on, you rarely squad wipe healthy and repaired set up squads. Infact, I'd say a third of the time the artillery skips a beat and all but takes a few models. That's not a problem either.
Just to get this out prior to counter points because I can feel this one creeping up fast; to compare mobile blobs and the effectiveness of each is almost silly. The targeting reticles themselves should be enough evidence of that. It's like comparing the effected area of a streamlined laser and a shotgun.
All that said. This shouldn't be a debate where the validity of the subject is justified by another unit.
i think you're forgeting a few important things regarding stuka. There are chokepoints or obvious retreat points in many maps, like, say, the roads on semoisky and kholodny.
So is isn't hard to predict these and wipe them, especially if you fire it behind a unit taking damage in a fight.
Outside of a fight, sure you can move to the side to avoid it, but when you're fighting sturmpios, or any strong okw unit you can't afford to delay your retreat.
Also losing squads for SU isn't just a minor inconvenience. If you lose your vetted conscripts or penals or guards, what are you gonna do with vanilla scripts against vetted okw or even obers ? |
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It doesn't need to be fully built to work ! the instant they lay it down, infantry can't pass through and you need either a vehicle with crush or a stachell.
This can allow sturmpios to just deny portions of a map fairly quickly and for a while. |
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Upclose penetration boost is very nice
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Features a king tiger, a vet 3 t34 etc.
very low vp in the end |
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there is always the airdropped atgun from airborne doctrine if you wanna skip t3 |
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Canonade, you are not taking in account the stun rounds that pak can use, nor possible shrecks etc.
T34/76 imo cannot take that much. if it runs into a double pak firing line, it will be dead before it can get out, because of its health and poor pathing.
Now imagine 1 vet 1 pak plus shreck pgrens or a p4, stug...
Despite what was said, allied armor just isn't that much faster than axis.
Yeah you can escape if you always see the ennemy tank coming, but if you let axis armor anywhere close, or in medium range, you most likely won't escape.
I know RL isn't an argument, but it's odd seing the speed of panthers and t34 in this game. They had equal speed on road, but offroad, t34 was much faster |
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hmgs are in general too easy to kill from the front even when set up. it's ok if you catch it setting up and you're close, but otherwise, either US blob or some veteran german troops can just slaughter the hmg crew too fast.
Is it possible to give the mg crew additionnal defense from shots coming from inside their cone of fire ? i think it ould solve part of the problem.
But overall i think it's a general problem with killing power being too high for many units, like lmg riflemen and paras, obers and sometimes sturmpios or falls
Also, KT always hitting 57mm atguns and destroying it in 2 hits. |
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