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Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback14 Apr 2021, 23:36 PM Jump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 23:24 PMKatukov I'd not call them a straight buff, you have to spend manpower, which is not a cheap resource in the early game as SOV. Maybe i am just stupid and I don't appreciate the strength of these things because of how dynamic 1v1 captures can go The commander is for sure a more team game faction since it's mostly trying to just hold the line until it can rush out the heavy tanks it has. The repair stations are just insanely strong at helping you and your allies keep your tanks healthy. Early on you won't really need a repair station and in team games it's easier to get a ZiS truck out and put it on a fuel point without as much worry for dying (the Opel Blitz in the Ostheer is the same thing and that's usually how it is used). The recon is a nice in general ability to help allies spot with artillery which is a nice little effect even though I do have to say it's not the most thematic ability. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback14 Apr 2021, 16:13 PM Jump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 10:12 AMChukiki And kv2 is total garbage, I want this to be changed to mark vehicle. Kv1 needs straight out buffs Soviet industry is too weak against infantry blobs. The kv1 and kv2 are not blob killers but prey to blobs. Sorry what? If the KV2 isn't a bolb killer what is? Also I think you mean the KV8. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - British Feedback14 Apr 2021, 02:53 AM So I don't play much UKF but there are 3 commanders that the vanguard operation crocodile which is a 1/3 of all the commanders for the faction. What if Tactical Support had it's operation vanguard replaced with a land mattress? According to these stats Tactical Support is practically tied with Advanced Emplacements as the least included commander in loadouts. Giving a land mattress would help give UKF overall more options to get rocket artillery and could be a possible way to improve this otherwise rarely chosen commander. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback13 Apr 2021, 21:45 PM Jump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 20:51 PMKatukov Soviet Industry Tactics Vehicle Crew Repairs replaced with Recon Overflight Allied Supply Drop replaced with ZIS 6 Supply Truck the industry tactics doctrine is supposed to let SOV get tanks faster, and it is easily countered. Why remove it? possibly adding this ability to other commanders that wouldn't mind it would be nice, or reworking the ability so you don't actually have to gamble on the airplane ever arriving. I think you answered your own question in that it was to easily countered. Essentially you could maybe use the air drop 1 time and once the enemy got any AA out it became useless. The ZiS truck still let's you rush out armor if you can put in on a fuel point. And the repair station just completely outclassed the infantry repair stuff so literally anything is an improvement in that slot. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback13 Apr 2021, 18:55 PM So if you look at the in this link the Scavenge commander is bottom three in commanders taken in loadouts in every single game mode. Scavenge is just lackluster in what it brings and has a unsynergetic set of abilities (and several of them are very meh). Infiltration Grenades and Jaeger Infantry seem to be a more aggressive sets of abilities but then the buffed scavenge and 105mm artillery are more based around an economic plan. Then the ostwind struggles to find a real home due to the rest of the commander being so meh. Here's some ideas Ostwind ---> Replace with captured T-34-76 Thorough Scavenge ---> Buff Infiltration Tactics ---> Something with munitions like a recon pass or light artillery barrage Jaeger Light Infantry Squad 105mm Artillery Strike A t-34 fits extremely well with the theme of the doctrine, infiltration tactics being so cheap doesn't really work here, and thorough scavenge should be improved further to make it more useful. I would maybe speed up the salvage so it's easier to pull off. Also the T-34-76 would be the same stat wise as a Soviets T-34-76 except with 5 vet levels and maybe it doesn't get the ram. It would cost the same and come at the same timing as Ostwind and Hetzer. I also think since Ostwind would be cut if this was done the ostwind should be moved to Luftwaffe Ground Forces by replacing the Heavy Fortifications. It fits better in that aggressive doctrine rather than the defensively natured heavy fort stuff. Beyond that Breakthrough Doctrine is also the most popular commander in team games and it could be considered to remove Assault Artillery from the doctrine and put it into a different less effective doctrine. Breakthrough has a super heavy TD alongside some other good abilities it really doesn't need also a potent heavy artillery call in. That could potentially help some other doctrine a lot. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback11 Apr 2021, 13:49 PM I would really prefer something else entirely be done with PzFusilliers rather than the changes that are trying to balance them as an alternate volks. I posted this before but I would be interested in trying them as a 6 man squad that is strong early game, falls off midgame, and then can upgrade some amount of G43s late game. It would make them stand out from volks by having a period of weakness while volks get their power spike during that downtime. It would make them stand out and could be interesting to blend both units together. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback11 Apr 2021, 13:43 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 08:58 AMProtos Angelus Highly doubt any substantial changes will follow for the USF. Wouldn't hold my breath, waiting for the proper commander update. I think this is probably it for the USF. No commander changes, just a couple of unit ones. Well in the general thread there was mention of a bigger patch coming next week. So I hope we see some changes to US commanders in it. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback11 Apr 2021, 04:13 AM Armor Company The other buffs have been nice but I think something more needs to be done with the M10 Wolverine. Currently it is still just a bit lackluster and struggles to see use over just regular shermans or jacksons. Someone else mentioned that it's target size was actually higher than medium tanks so it could be a reasonable way to buff it by lowering that to some amount. Another idea is to look to add some new ability to give it more utility. Historically M10s usually carried smoke rounds so that could maybe something worth trying out. Make it similar to the command panzer IV smoke shot. It would add a lot of utility to the unit by letting them either create a sight blocker giving them time to flank the the enemy or to help it escape from bad situations. Rifle Company Combine riflemen field defense and infantry advanced equipment and then add the M3 halftrack. This commander really needs something else added to it and a halftrack would go really well into this role. A forward place for riflemen to heal, reinforce, and get transportation would help amplify the riflemens power which is what this doctrine is intended to do. Recon Support This commander only sees modest pick rates across all game modes and imo needs a nudge in it's power level. The greyhound does have a strange timing so an improvement there could help. This commander has also suffered from the pak howie nerf more than other doctrines maybe you could make that call in cheaper? Whatever the change is it would definitely help this commander to get a little bit of extra help. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback11 Apr 2021, 02:43 AM Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 01:22 AMltaustinpowers One other thing I want to suggest prior to getting into the Commanders, is combining two abilities. With the suggested removal of Riegel Mines from Storm, Riegel mines would only be found on one commander, just like Entrenching Tools. I suggest combining Riegel mines with Entrenching Tools into one ability. Riegel mines actually got combined with Mobile Observation Post with the latest update. Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 01:22 AMltaustinpowers Blitzkrieg: The Blitzkrieg doctrine stressed combined operations; aircraft supporting armor which in turn should exploit breakthroughs won by infantry. Remove Panzer Tactician and Recon Overflight. Replace with Breakthrough Equipment and Breakthrough. I think this is actually a pretty hefty nerf to a commander that doesn't really need many (if any) changes. Recon Flight and Panzer Tactician are really useful abilities to save vehicles and also just scout what the enemy is doing. I see blitzkrieg as the really tactical commander of the bunch. None of the abilities are super stand out but when all combined it gives a robust and versatile commander. Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 01:22 AMltaustinpowers Fortified Armor: I suggest removing Panzer Tactician and replacing it with Entrenching Tools (now with Riegel). For a commander that is designed to be fortified, or entrenched, it make sense to include entrenching tools here. With the Elefant unable to position much while hulled down, I like the idea of being able to place Regal mines to help set traps for a hulled down Elefant. To me at least I always thought this commander was all about making your armor hard as hell to kill. Between the command panzer, the hull down, and panzer tactician it gave the commander a lot of ways to protect it's armor and just make it really hard to kill them. Imo the only issue with this guy after the changes are that jaeger armor still largely outclasses him (which is why I think that commander needs more nerfs). Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 01:22 AMltaustinpowers Jaeger Armor: I honestly feel that the balance team indirectly BUFFED this commander with the removal of the Stuka Dive Bomb and its replacement with Ju-87 Anti-Tank Strafe. As a result, I don't think this commander should be able to recon for itself. Convert Riegel Mine to Entrenching Tools. Remove Stuka Recon and replace with Model 24 Stun Grenades. Speaking of which... I largely agree with the reasoning as to why this commander needs more nerfs. Although personally I would look to just replace the AT strafe with some otherwise low impact effect. I think the recon isn't that big an issue except it's combined with powerful call ins which I think the are the bigger problem abilities. I mainly don't get the reasoning of adding entrenchment tools (which is unlikely to happen since mines are already in MOP now) and the stun grenades? Like this commander is all about messing up armor yet these abilities are more tuned to making your infantry stronger. If possible I think something more thematic should be attempted before anything really strange like that happens. Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 01:22 AMltaustinpowers Mobile Defense: I appreciate the removal of Ostruppen Reserves, the buff to Counterattack Tactics, and the quicker build time for Puma, but frankly, I don't believe those changes will be enough to justify using this doctrine. Remove Panzer Tactician and replace with Assault Grenadiers. I have read it many times here how people would like to see Ass Grens used in another doctrine, one without a Tiger. Ass Grens would be a perfect fit here as they are an agile infantry unit which would support the identity of this commander. This seems like a neat idea that could be interesting to at least try out. I think one of the bigger issues is still the puma timing but dropping panzer tact might allow it to come out a little faster (like say it goes to 4 CP). I would be interested in trying that change out. Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 01:22 AMltaustinpowers Ostruppen: Riegel mines are added to Entrenching tools. As said elsewhere the mines are already with the MOP now. Jump back to quoted post11 Apr 2021, 01:22 AMltaustinpowers Spearhead: Remove Recon Overflight and replace with Break Supply Line. Being able to neutralize strategic points prior to attacking them with the main force would be ideal for spearheading an assault. I don't know if you intended this but that change would be a pretty big nerf to the commander rather than a buff. The recon is a super important because of the combo with frag bombs which is simply amazing in the commander. Break Supply Line is really niche in it's effect so this would be a pretty massive nerf to the commander which at least seems like it isn't the intention based on how it's explained. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback10 Apr 2021, 15:40 PM Some ideas for commander changes Assault Support Frag Bombs ---> Stuka AT Strafe Although a pretty decent commander in terms of how much it's played this commander overlaps heavily with Spearhead as both share the Tiger + Frag Bombs combo. They do differ in some things but changing this overlap would help assault support stand out better compared to spearhead (which I would say is overall better). The AT strafe would give this commander a possibly different niche compared to spearhead by having quick call ins to deal with enemy armor and infantry but not having as effective a tool against team weapons. It would make them strong against different counters to the Tiger. Close Air Support Supply Drop Run ---> Condense the resource crates into fewer drops that contain the same resources. Stuka AI Strafe ---> Luftwaffe Field Officer Close Air Support is a very underpicked commander due to it's horrible reliance on munitions and the fact that it has all of it's slots taken up with various air abilties. The Luftwaffe Field Officer doesn't addrress that issue but does overall give the commander some extra utility with the extra abilities he can bring. A buff to the supply drop by making it faster to happen would be a minor boost to make it less time consuming and micro intensive (fewer drops you have to pick). Festung Support Mortar Halftrack ---> LeFh 18 Forward Resupply Station ---> Make buildable without needing a ambient building Festung Support did get a nice set of new abilities but I do think it needs further tweaking. The current changes to all the ostheer commanders makes it so only 2 of them will remain with LeFh. Compared to the Soviets this is actually pretty one sided now. The Soviets with their current commander changes would retain 3 commanders with the ML20 and 2 with the B4. I agree ostheer doesn't need 6 commanders with LeFh but cutting it down by 2/3 I think is a little extreme. I think festung makes a lot of sense to keep it's LeFh and rather toss out the mortar halftrack which to me is a more aggressive form of indirect which I believe is kinda out of line with the idea of this commander. Beyond that change I think forward resupply station needs to be able to be built without an ambient building as this makes it heavily reliant on the map to be useful. The repair bunker bundled on I don't think makes up for it. German Mechanized Spotting Scopes ---> Combined Arms The removal of the LeFh from this commander makes the Spotting scopes no longer make much sense. There are no off map abilties, there is no artillery, there isn't even really any unit that can benefit from the extra sightlines. Something like Combined Arms as a buff would be a excellent addition to the commander to combine with the halftrack and command panzer. Jaeger Armor Stuka AT Strafe ---> Something low impact. My suggestion would be ambush training. Jaeger Armor is still an overperforming doctrine in larger team games and the recent spotting scopes nerf will have an impact on that but it's not enough imo. The AT strafe is a very powerful ability and hasn't weakened that commander slot much from the stuka bombing strike. It needs to be changed again to something even weaker. My suggestion is ambush training which I think fits a bit into the commander while not being to powerful. It would in theory be a tool that allows you infantry to amubsh enemy armor with panzerfausts from grens and panzershrecks from panzergrens. Joint Operations Pak 43 ---> Light Artillery Barrage Forward Resupply Station ---> Needs to be buildable with a ambient building (see Festung Support for reasoning) I think removing the LAB from this commander was a bit of a mistake as it was a very nice ability to give his commander a relatively cheap way to harass enemy positions. The issue with having both the PaK43 and LeFh is that this abilities often are only chosen as one or the other due to the cost. The Pak43 exists in a decent amount of commanders already so I think it's fine to cut it from here and instead focus this commander more as the artillery commander overall. Other units that need something Assault Grenadiers - Give sprint back or give some new abilty to make up for now delayed sprint (like a slight improvement to their weapons or a slight boost to their RA). Tactical Movement - Maybe a small RA bonus while active (-5% or -10%). Model 24 Stun Grenade - Bundle with something to be more worthwhile. Maybe put it in breakthrough equipment? Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade - Slight cost reduction (like to 50 munitions). In: COH2 Balance