I think IS are worth a buff, not a direct combat buff but rather a tool to deal with more strategical situations.
I think that both howitzers should be ready from the start, they already take too long to land their shots
Early smoke for UKF
13 Oct 2019, 17:51 PM
#1
Posts: 2358
Since UKF has not any kind of mobile mortar, to fight off early use of HMG by axis, why dont we add to the pyro upgrade an ability to launch smoke shells for free 20 mun, with a reasonably long Cooldown.
I think IS are worth a buff, not a direct combat buff but rather a tool to deal with more strategical situations.
I think that both howitzers should be ready from the start, they already take too long to land their shots
I think IS are worth a buff, not a direct combat buff but rather a tool to deal with more strategical situations.
I think that both howitzers should be ready from the start, they already take too long to land their shots
13 Oct 2019, 18:30 PM
#2
Posts: 88
Hm I would not be very keen on this. I mean, yes tommies were nerfed and then buffed again, but they are still potent en mass. Just imagine these hordes running around covered by smoke. No thanks lol.
13 Oct 2019, 18:40 PM
#3
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Not sure if smoke for UKF is needed, but then again I have not played them since Tommies were nerfed, so take everything I say with a little grain of salt:
If smoke is necessary, I'd rather see it on the engineers. UKF engineers are very decent in combat and it would add to the combined arms approach of the early game.
The obvious problem with that is that the engineers usually come in the late-early/early-mid game, so OST could have already gained too much ground for too little investment (don't know how sincere the problem is at the moment). This could be circumvented by MP buf for T1 with MP nerf for T2, Tommies or engineers, neglecting other side effects like earlier sniper and AT gun.
Also, since there is a current discussion about UC buff:
Maybe give UC a smoke shell? There is no animation for it, but I mean the gunner could just throw a shell.
If smoke is necessary, I'd rather see it on the engineers. UKF engineers are very decent in combat and it would add to the combined arms approach of the early game.
The obvious problem with that is that the engineers usually come in the late-early/early-mid game, so OST could have already gained too much ground for too little investment (don't know how sincere the problem is at the moment). This could be circumvented by MP buf for T1 with MP nerf for T2, Tommies or engineers, neglecting other side effects like earlier sniper and AT gun.
Also, since there is a current discussion about UC buff:
Maybe give UC a smoke shell? There is no animation for it, but I mean the gunner could just throw a shell.
13 Oct 2019, 18:50 PM
#4
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Hm I would not be very keen on this. I mean, yes tommies were nerfed and then buffed again, but they are still potent en mass. Just imagine these hordes running around covered by smoke. No thanks lol.
The newest buff to sections is minor and come because the previous neft has been considered too much. Yet, sections are kind of ok now as an unit but the faction has gaps in it lineup which need to be fill, smoke is one of those gap.
As said, the ideas here is pyrotechnics upgrade will allow section to throw marker
For a smoke barrage from base. The main purpose of it is to deal with Mg garrison, with a significant delay for the gun in base to make ready, plus a long, share cooldown with HE barrage, i dont think this can come anywhere near OP.
13 Oct 2019, 18:51 PM
#5
Posts: 4474
not free at least
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
13 Oct 2019, 18:57 PM
#6
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Not sure if smoke for UKF is needed, but then again I have not played them since Tommies were nerfed, so take everything I say with a little grain of salt:
If smoke is necessary, I'd rather see it on the engineers. UKF engineers are very decent in combat and it would add to the combined arms approach of the early game.
The obvious problem with that is that the engineers usually come in the late-early/early-mid game, so OST could have already gained too much ground for too little investment (don't know how sincere the problem is at the moment). This could be circumvented by MP buf for T1 with MP nerf for T2, Tommies or engineers, neglecting other side effects like earlier sniper and AT gun.
Also, since there is a current discussion about UC buff:
Maybe give UC a smoke shell? There is no animation for it, but I mean the gunner could just throw a shell.
Smoke on royal engineer is an options but i think it has shortcomings, it fit when you use the engineer itself to close in and do the fight but they are not dedicated combat unit and dont have flame upgrade,meanwhile, cover others squad with this kind of smoke is difficult.
If we are going for smoke on UC, it can be make to work like smoke pot of Sherman or valentine tank.
13 Oct 2019, 18:58 PM
#7
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
not free at least
HE is 45, so smoke for 20 ?
13 Oct 2019, 19:55 PM
#8
Posts: 4474
seems fair, but we need to think about the range
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
13 Oct 2019, 20:45 PM
#9
Posts: 88
Yeah we know what happened to riflemen smoke, no thanks on sections.
13 Oct 2019, 21:00 PM
#10
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I mean you do have a mobile mortar and WP grenades which kinda act like smoke in the new Lend Lease Assault regiment so it's not entirely not having ANY type of smoke, it's just doctrinal.
Only problem is the commander is more meant for 1v1s and filling the gaps in the UKF's roster but as the players in the match go up the less potent the commander sadly is. I tried it a few times in 4v4s and while spamming the M10 is good I think I'd rather prefer having the Churchill Croc to call in and something like the Vanguard Regiment.
Only problem is the commander is more meant for 1v1s and filling the gaps in the UKF's roster but as the players in the match go up the less potent the commander sadly is. I tried it a few times in 4v4s and while spamming the M10 is good I think I'd rather prefer having the Churchill Croc to call in and something like the Vanguard Regiment.
13 Oct 2019, 23:16 PM
#11
Posts: 2358
I thank all the people participating, my reasons to suggest a base howitzer smoke for UKF is mainly based on giving pyro IS more utity because they thend to be outweighted by the field medic upgrade. Its like IS durability is far more important than what IS can achieve.
Other reason is to give UKF more strategical resources to enable new and diverse tactics. Pyro IS coupled with a grenade buff should deal effectively with early (but not the earliests) garrisons. Its not like RM smoke since the delay would be big enough to exploit cheesyness.
I like to keep factions unique and giving base howitzers seemed the right way
I agree that free smoke is not okay, i just wanted to give a start to the idea.
Doctrinal options are good and currently attempt to fill the gap of cover smoke for UKF but i just wanted to check if the community agrees with this design.
Other reason is to give UKF more strategical resources to enable new and diverse tactics. Pyro IS coupled with a grenade buff should deal effectively with early (but not the earliests) garrisons. Its not like RM smoke since the delay would be big enough to exploit cheesyness.
I like to keep factions unique and giving base howitzers seemed the right way
I agree that free smoke is not okay, i just wanted to give a start to the idea.
Doctrinal options are good and currently attempt to fill the gap of cover smoke for UKF but i just wanted to check if the community agrees with this design.
14 Oct 2019, 12:12 PM
#12
Posts: 3260
Make them free, but they trigger the global howitzer cooldown.
You still need to buy a Pyro Section to fire them.
You still need to buy a Pyro Section to fire them.
14 Oct 2019, 14:29 PM
#13
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
Yeah we know what happened to riflemen smoke, no thanks on sections.
MP40 volks have it and nobody is crying about those right now
14 Oct 2019, 15:23 PM
#14
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
MP40 volks have it and nobody is crying about those right now
And the idea we are talking about with pyro upgrade work completely different from somke nade, though.
14 Oct 2019, 15:23 PM
#15
Posts: 818
This would be a pretty good addition. UKF does have several decent options for smoke, but they all require heavy investment (mortar pit, AEC, Cromwell, Comet, Churchill). They could use the Pershing doc smoke callin animation or the new USF doc sprinting one.
Hopefully this would help balance out the 400 manpower immobile mortar pit and help provide a more flexible counter for UKF vs MGs
Of course rifle smoke was considered too much, but the upgrade cost on UKF sections to pyrotecnics and potentially medics in base would all serve to mitigate this.
Hopefully this would help balance out the 400 manpower immobile mortar pit and help provide a more flexible counter for UKF vs MGs
Of course rifle smoke was considered too much, but the upgrade cost on UKF sections to pyrotecnics and potentially medics in base would all serve to mitigate this.
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14 Oct 2019, 17:30 PM
#16
Posts: 88
MP40 volks have it and nobody is crying about those right now
Riflemen smoke was undoctrinal.
15 Oct 2019, 04:07 AM
#17
Posts: 65
Tommies don't have high close dps, sounds acceptable.
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