Volks and Pfs suggestions

1. Panzerfuesilliers
Imo this unit has some problems atm:
- The unit is weaker than volks in the early game
- Too much sight for a combat unit
- They scale slower than volks
- They are stronger in the late game than volks, but its not guaranteed that they beat penals and upgraded sections, they wont beat double bar rifles for sure and they are not as good as obers combatwise
=> You trade a weaker early game with a slightly better lategame and some utility
Combatwise volks+obers are most of the time a better investment than volks/pfs+pfs+pfs/obers
- Their weapon upgrade promotes blobs and a-moving (almost no moving penalty on g34)
- The early faust nullifies early vehicle plays

The balance team tried to make them more viable through a cost reduction in the last patch. In my opinion this is the wrong direction. There is no need for a cheaper and more potent volks squad. And for now this unit will always be compared to volks.

My suggestions: Make them more like penals. A stronger unit than volks, but with a higher price and other utilities.
- They start as 6 men unit
- 300 -320 mp; 28 - 30 reinforce
- They start with gren k98 (if my math is right, they then have slightly less close range dps than penals, but higher long range dps, can be adjusted through acc if needed)
- Vet remains the same (less dmg at vet 5 compared to vet 3 penals, last man stand not included)
- Faust is locked behind first tech building like volks
- Build time 30-35 secs (volks 20, penals 30)

They have 2 weapon upgrades now:
a; 6 obers k98, locked behind two tech buildings, now they outdps penals without last man stand, but still not as good as lmg obers, 1 weapon slot remains (iam not sure how acc has to be adjusted), 80 muni, 30 secs
b; 2-3 panzerbüchse (equal stats as ptrs), locked behind 1 tech building, no weapon slot remains, 60 muni, 30 secs

Now okw can decide between a faster, map control orientated playstyle and a slower, fighting orientated playstyle.

2. Volksgrenadiers
- Stgs are a no brainer
- Stgs come too early, no allied inf can fight them at that timing
- They dont scale that good
=> there is no tactical decision making behind choosing stgs. They are just a overal dps upgrade

Suggestions:
- Swap mp40 with Stgs
- Stgs are 2-3 cp now
- Swap vet 4 with vet 5
- Instead of vet 5 7 more sight range, volks get their k98 upgraded to obers(grens if too strong) lvl
=> mp40 is a obvious close range upgrade -> you have to make a decision between allround volks and close range volks, volks scale decent into vet 5 without weapon upgrades now (takes longer though cause no dps through stgs), stgs now come later and wont trash cons/sections and rifle now, stgs scale better with the performance upgrade on vet5

Compare mainline infantry with elite infantry, not the most wise decision. Who need that pfusy will be closer to obers? Or cons closer to guards?
As you mentioned - pfusi slightly worse than volks in early, but they also give you early snare, that very good against SU T1 opening. Also rifle grenade don't have the same troubles as faust and always hit to target.
Don't forget, that instead flame nade you got regular frag nade, that much better. And of course 6-man squad when g-43 is deployed. As for me pretty potent unit.
If you want make from them "OKW penals" they must lost their snare and got it only with AT package. It also could be the same close range high-damage snare as penals have. But as for me, make clones of units just kill diversity in game.

Yes let’s change everything, I don’t see why not.

Penals are a badly designed unit. Last thing this game need is more Penal type units.

It is Penal that need a redesign and not PF.

Penals should be wiped out from game, they just angry child born from WFA when cons became trash. No any faction don'r should have 2 mainline units - it's just make overall balance more worse.

penals are like obers which would apear in min 5. too strong.

What they should change about Pfusi's imo:

- Move 10% of the RA bonus at vet 3 to vet 1, like Volks. Vet 0 Pfusi's are worse than Volks, but vet 1 Pfusi's are allot worse than Volks.

- Make the Volksgrenadier accuracy bulletin work for them, like how the Gren bulletin works for Osttruppen. Without it vet 0 Pfusi's have worse dps at every range compared to vet 0 Volks. It sounds like a small detail, but consider the following:

• The accuracy bulletin scales with veterancy, where it goes from 3% to 4,2%.
  
  
• Your opponent will most likely use the accuracy bulletin himself, which means there's already a 6% difference between what extra accuracy you could have had and what your opponent has. ~8% difference with veterancy.
  

Look at the best players and you'Il see they don't make more than 1, just for the snare (and probably Schrecks later on). These small changes might make them viable enough to get 2 at the start with support of 1-2 Volks for sandbags.

Before giving any squad the Ober Kar98, we could start by actually fixing it. 2 squads with those weapons (3 Obers model wise) would be suppressing squads passively.

penals are like obers which would apear in min 5. too strong.

And 222 are like T70s, too strong too.

I don't like these ideas, the changes to Panzerfusiliers and Volksgrenadiers are missing the point of both units. Also you claim that the Volksgrenadier StG upgrade is a no-brainer, but then want an upgrade that gives Panzerfusiliers six Obersoldaten Kar 98's, which of course is a clear upgrade to Panzerfuslier Kar 98's and probably puts them on BAR Riflemen level. The "clear upgrade" is also a silly argument because the Bren, MG 42, and especially BAR are all "clear upgrades", so why should the Volksgrenadiers not have one?

I don't like these ideas, the changes to Panzerfusiliers and Volksgrenadiers are missing the point of both units. Also you claim that the Volksgrenadier StG upgrade is a no-brainer, but then want an upgrade that gives Panzerfusiliers six Obersoldaten Kar 98's, which of course is a clear upgrade to Panzerfuslier Kar 98's and probably puts them on BAR Riflemen level. The "clear upgrade" is also a silly argument because the Bren, MG 42, and especially BAR are all "clear upgrades", so why should the Volksgrenadiers not have one?

Bren and mg42 don't fire on the move and are worse off up close due to aim time. They are both a refinement in tommy/grens intended range but not as no Brainer as "increases close damage, but also long range damage, concentrates some dps on a
ouple models so losing models hurts less and also kicks ass on the move"
This is a problem with the BAR as well, but at the absolute very least at least rifles were designed with that in mind.
Not to mention okw can upgrade in enemy territory for some reason vs having to hit the base for rifles (and maybe having to wait around if you don't have the munitions at the moment)
It takes more brainpower to tell your finger to click the mouse to upgrade to STGs than it takes to decide if you should.

.. The "clear upgrade" is also a silly argument because the Bren, MG 42, and especially BAR are all "clear upgrades", so why should the Volksgrenadiers not have one?

The bren and LMG 42 is not a "clear upgrade", it reduce close DPS and DPS on the move. It is a weapon that increase only the long range performance of the unit.

The BAR is a "clear upgrade" but riflemen where designed to be OP when USF had tech limitations.

MP-44 (and Penal SVT's) have almost linear curves making the weapons perform good at all distance, they are badly designed...

And 222 are like T70s, too strong too.

I can’t tell if you say this to trigger me

But mission passed respect + you succeeded I’m triggered