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russian armor

Pershing needs a timing nerf

2 Oct 2019, 17:59 PM
#21
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3041 | Subs: 3

I think giving all heavies build timers would be a positive change in this issue.

Kinda silly that we click the largest and most powerful tanks into existence but have to wait for scout cars and kubelwagens to get built


+1

this would also equal out the weird requirement differences across the factions. OKW needs an alive t4 for their heavies(except KT) and needs to rebuild it upon destruction, whereas ostheer only needs BP3....
2 Oct 2019, 18:00 PM
#22
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



+1

this would also equal out the weird requirement differences across the factions. OKW needs an alive t4 for their heavies(except KT) and needs to rebuild it upon destruction, whereas ostheer only needs BP3....


Agree, it's very very inconsistent and counter-intuitive.
2 Oct 2019, 18:33 PM
#23
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



Fastest way to a heavy:
OKW (15+25+15+60+60+230-10=) 395 fuel for Tiger;
SOV (10+85+90+230-20=) 395 fuel for IS-2;
OST (40+90+25+230-20=) 365 fuel for Tiger, +10/20/15 if getting any tier buildings;
USF (35+20+120+230-20=) 385 fuel for Pershing.


So, even though I'd agree Pershing seems just a little bit too powerful at its current timing (solved by making it slightly more expensive and/or increasing its veterancy requirements to reduce how fast it scales imo), other factions do not get their heavies "way later". They are all pretty much in line right now.


Cuz it is well known no one build an ambulance and unlock bar or grenade.
2 Oct 2019, 18:48 PM
#24
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 960

Was adding build timers ever an option or idea? I feel like it would be a good change for all heavy tanks. Adds a little delay, especially for replacing them when they get lost. In some team games you see people replacing them instantly


This is a good suggestions. It would be interesting if all heavy tanks were made buildable at each factions "final tech" level/building when the current conditions were met (enough points, pre-req up, etc.). It would give the balance team the ability to adjust build times on individual heavies, and it should be possible to do; the T34-85 already uses this method, just with a 0-point requirement, rather than the 9-14 of heavies.
2 Oct 2019, 19:12 PM
#25
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2019, 18:33 PMEsxile


Cuz it is well known no one build an ambulance and unlock bar or grenade.


You also have to give up either MG's or AT guns.
2 Oct 2019, 19:14 PM
#26
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2019, 18:33 PMEsxile


Cuz it is well known no one build an ambulance and unlock bar or grenade.


He skipped healing for okw as well, and mechanized is the more popular tech choice anyway. He was just showing literally the fastest way to get to heavies, and it was just to show that the factions are pretty equal when it comes to timing
2 Oct 2019, 19:17 PM
#27
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2019, 18:33 PMEsxile
Cuz it is well known no one build an ambulance and unlock bar or grenade.
He was just showing literally the fastest way to get to heavies, and it was just to show that the factions are pretty equal when it comes to timing


I was actually showing that the Pershing does not come significantly earlier than other faction's heavies, to disprove someone else claiming it did, so adding the Ambulance and Weapon Racks into that calculation would only further prove my point.
2 Oct 2019, 19:18 PM
#28
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958



This is a good suggestions. It would be interesting if all heavy tanks were made buildable at each factions "final tech" level/building when the current conditions were met (enough points, pre-req up, etc.). It would give the balance team the ability to adjust build times on individual heavies, and it should be possible to do; the T34-85 already uses this method, just with a 0-point requirement, rather than the 9-14 of heavies.


Maybe make them buildable at the HQ like Aerafield is suggesting, but having them start on cooldown like Sky suggested.

It would be nice to have a larger window for mediums. It seems weird that my first armor is often either an IS2 or Tiger.
2 Oct 2019, 19:22 PM
#29
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


I was actually showing that the Pershing does not come significantly earlier than other faction's heavies


Alright well that's kinda what i was trying to say. Any thoughts on the build timer question?
2 Oct 2019, 19:33 PM
#30
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Was adding build timers ever an option or idea?


Personally I originally wanted 0CPs + build time in either T4 or HQ, and it was definitely discussed, but for now we eventually went with the hybrid system. Ideally this would've coincided with changing the cooldown to start upon the unit's destruction, but in the end we found that wasn't possible sadly.

So in the end the call-in production of the heavies was kept, I think for variety and readability's sake (some HQs like OKW's would get a lot of units, it would be odd to have a buildable unit that can be produced only once, heavy tanks are supposed to feel unique and powerful and a call-in does that more justice, etc.), so for now we'll stick with the hybrid system and possibly do some small adjustments (like costs or other characteristics) and let the entire heavies meta settle for now and see where it lands. Making them buildable is always an option for later, if needed.
2 Oct 2019, 19:37 PM
#31
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



Personally I originally wanted 0CPs + build time in either T4 or HQ, and it was definitely discussed, but for now we eventually went with the hybrid system. Ideally this would've coincided with changing the cooldown to start upon the unit's destruction, but in the end we found that wasn't possible sadly.

So in the end the call-in production of the heavies was kept, I think for variety and readability's sake (some HQs like OKW's would get a lot of units, it would be odd to have a buildable unit that can be produced only once, etc.), so for now we'll stick with the hybrid system and possibly do some small adjustments (like costs or other characteristics) and let the entire heavies meta settle for now and see where it lands. Making them buildable is always an option for later, if needed.


Gotcha, thanks for the insight on your guys' thought process for them. It's a shame the cooldown on destruction idea can't be implemented
2 Oct 2019, 21:03 PM
#32
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2019, 19:18 PMGrumpy

ur link in the signature is still broken
3 Oct 2019, 05:36 AM
#33
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

Lowering CP reqs for heavy tanks was a mistake anyway. Should all go back up to 12 or so.

Failing that, have to build them would be great (increased cooldown/recharge time of dispatch ability is not sufficient)
3 Oct 2019, 06:05 AM
#34
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

Lowering CP reqs for heavy tanks was a mistake anyway. Should all go back up to 12 or so.

Failing that, have to build them would be great (increased cooldown/recharge time of dispatch ability is not sufficient)


And add the same CP reqs for OKW KT also.
3 Oct 2019, 06:07 AM
#35
avatar of Freestyler1992

Posts: 88

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 06:05 AMAradan


And add the same CP reqs for OKW KT also.


That is a non doc vehicle, so no.
3 Oct 2019, 06:12 AM
#36
avatar of Freestyler1992

Posts: 88



Fastest way to a heavy:
OKW (15+25+15+60+60+230-10=) 395 fuel for Tiger;
SOV (10+85+90+230-20=) 395 fuel for IS-2;
OST (40+90+25+230-20=) 365 fuel for Tiger, +10/20/15 if getting any tier buildings;
USF (35+20+120+230-20=) 385 fuel for Pershing.


So, even though I'd agree Pershing seems just a little bit too powerful at its current timing (solved by making it slightly more expensive and/or increasing its veterancy requirements to reduce how fast it scales imo), other factions do not get their heavies "way later". They are all pretty much in line right now.


Hm but usually USF has a better map control in the early game and mid game too, especially with the stronger riflemen now. With these calculations in mind, a Pershing will drop a lot quicker than a Ost tiger or OKW tiger. Now if there is no definitive map control for USF, then you have the nightmare where you drop your Pershing but the Tiger ace is already rolling on the map too lol.
3 Oct 2019, 06:41 AM
#37
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



I was actually showing that the Pershing does not come significantly earlier than other faction's heavies, to disprove someone else claiming it did, so adding the Ambulance and Weapon Racks into that calculation would only further prove my point.


Indeed not since it usually comes the latest if you add the ambulance and one weapon/grenade unlock.
You said that for its timing you'll probably nerf it but from a realistic perspective or it come at the exact same time or later than the others. If atm the Pershing is overperforming that's not because of its timing.
3 Oct 2019, 07:14 AM
#38
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



That is a non doc vehicle, so no.


KT much earlier before others heavy tanks? :clap:
We realy need more cancer in team games.
3 Oct 2019, 07:32 AM
#39
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 07:14 AMAradan


KT much earlier before others heavy tanks? :clap:
We realy need more cancer in team games.


KT doesn't come earlier than other heavy tanks unless the game is extremely one-sided.

If you get a Pershing you need 35+25+120+230-20 = 390
KT: 25+15+45+15+120+15+270-10 = 495 fuel

You generally have 9 CP before enough you have enough resources for a KT.
3 Oct 2019, 08:18 AM
#40
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 888



That is a non doc vehicle, so no.


LOL of course not, can't touch the sacred OKW cow.
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Last Friday, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
Last Friday, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
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Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
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Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
Last Thursday, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
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aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
Last Thursday, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
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Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
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Willy Pete: Really
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aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
Last Wednesday, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
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Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
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aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
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aaa: Online gaming is trash in general, not just coh. On high level there are all cheats in most games
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aaa: 2 cheaters in 3 days. MH and DH
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Last Tuesday, 15:40 PM
adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
Last Monday, 13:39 PM
Willy Pete: Shouldn't coh3 heavies actually have insane front armor values? The glory days of 400+ Kt armor wouldn't be as bad when side armor is a thing. Not to say its a good idea lol
14 Feb 2025, 23:14 PM
aerafield: But then again, maybe CoH3 superheavies should actually have insane armor values because the whole game is designed for the clumsy & inept anyway :snfPeter:
14 Feb 2025, 23:04 PM
aerafield: It's like you have to coordinate an entire orchestra of abilities and the correct units, meanwhile your opponent just clicks his 1 superheavy tank occasionally...
14 Feb 2025, 23:01 PM
aerafield: the giga frontal armor also made these units too oppressive in average or low ELO games
14 Feb 2025, 22:59 PM
aerafield: Massive HP pool but reasonable amount of armor is way healthier design
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
aerafield: Say what you want, but the titanium frontal armor design of coh2 superheavies was bullshit. Too many bad players not getting punished for their bad micro because penetration RNG carries them
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
Willy Pete: Also the attack ground with the pak40 looked perfect, that Pershing should be dead
14 Feb 2025, 19:18 PM
Willy Pete: Ahh just saw the other one that died. Some bad rng I think but there was an AT gun at med range for a chunk of that fight
14 Feb 2025, 19:14 PM
Willy Pete: Which KT? I saw one got almost deleted but it also showed its side to a hellcat AND the m5. I think the player even admitted he got lucky
14 Feb 2025, 19:10 PM
Lady Xenarra: I understand that the devs want to sell the Allied part of the DLC, but the KT got swiss cheesed like a COH2 bunker on treads :S
14 Feb 2025, 15:16 PM
SupremeStefan: They should make dlc separataly for axis and alies
14 Feb 2025, 10:28 AM
SupremeStefan: 25$ is actually a ok price for 40 abilites = 8 commanders = 4 battlegroups. But problem is that it comes in bundle
14 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
Willy Pete: Have they shown the actual trees yet for the new commanders? Skimmed through the deep dive today, didnt see em
13 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Rosbone: Big Tonk boners incoming :hansGASM:
13 Feb 2025, 17:38 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
12 Feb 2025, 14:57 PM
Lone-Wolf: Hi guys. Error code -4. Any fixes?
08 Feb 2025, 17:09 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
07 Feb 2025, 16:57 PM
SkYisTheLimiT_CoH: any coh2.org admin there ?
07 Feb 2025, 12:43 PM
Lady Xenarra: Ever the contrarian, aerafield.
07 Feb 2025, 11:59 AM
aerafield: I havent seen the new units in action yet (whose BGs will not be purchased by too many people as they are pretty expensive I recon), but I can say with 100% confidence that the Pershing needs a buff
07 Feb 2025, 02:31 AM
Lady Xenarra: I would think lots more players would come/return since there's so many iconic units being added in the new BGs. I just don't want to hear another 8+ yrs of Pershing need buff complaints
06 Feb 2025, 23:22 PM
adamírcz: If I had my supply of copium, Id say they might at least get enough money to not have to wait 5 months with problems that should be a matter of bi-weekly hotfix
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
adamírcz: I mean, its overpriced,
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
Rosbone: Will it help or hurt the current player base is the real question. Should add more players, but may drive many away.
06 Feb 2025, 19:17 PM
Rosbone: Yes you too can play with a persdhing for the low price of $24.99 USD. Or be the poor schlub who gets his rectum reconfigured who doesnt have the latest pay to win stuffs.
06 Feb 2025, 19:16 PM
donofsandiego: persdhing in coh 3? 😳
06 Feb 2025, 18:42 PM
Rosbone: @aerafield Ahhh, I think I made a pershing like twice in my life since that commander is pretty bad in 4s.
05 Feb 2025, 23:20 PM
aerafield: @Rosbone coh2 pershing has the same ability so, whatever. Though it's probably gonna be a 30 seconds ability to make it super broken pay to win, then 2 months later it will get "hotfixed" into a skillshot like coh2 pershing
05 Feb 2025, 22:00 PM
Rosbone: How do we feel about Pershing shooting thru multiple buildings?
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05 Feb 2025, 19:38 PM
aerafield: Not even the trailer can hide the trash sound effects
05 Feb 2025, 18:46 PM
Lady Xenarra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSvwH2mXje8 Well this should result in 'interesting' reactions... :rofl:
05 Feb 2025, 18:43 PM
Ginaaa: how do i send replay to get him banned?
05 Feb 2025, 00:11 AM
Ginaaa: `just caught cooper47/ maphacking
05 Feb 2025, 00:11 AM
adamírcz: Oh well, I might look it up on dickcord and try upload anyway
02 Feb 2025, 00:27 AM
adamírcz: shiit, saw clean through me
02 Feb 2025, 00:26 AM
aerafield: That's exactly what a drophacker would say
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