dude, it is a straight dps buff, for the ranges above it
Yes of course it is, for those ranges. But straight dps buff sounds more like what falls got, not Riflemen. There is a clear scale of difference in those changes
Grens UP & G43s suck
1 Oct 2019, 17:13 PM
#81
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Yes of course it is, for those ranges. But straight dps buff sounds more like what falls got, not Riflemen. There is a clear scale of difference in those changes
1 Oct 2019, 17:17 PM
#82
Posts: 4474
.... well if u remove the fire rate buff, then yes it’s the same as falls
Yes of course it is, for those ranges. But straight dps buff sounds more like what falls got, not Riflemen. There is a clear scale of difference in those changes
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Oct 2019, 17:19 PM
#84
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Hey Distrofio and SkysTheLimit ýou boys now shake hands and kiss. Take your confusing feelings to other forum this one is about war, not love.
I thought you wanted to talk about g43s? I gave you more thoughts on them like you asked
.... well if u remove the fire rate buff, then yes it’s the same as falls
???
1 Oct 2019, 17:30 PM
#85
Posts: 177
I thought you wanted to talk about g43s? I gave you more thoughts on them like you asked
You gave me the repeated answer of being good for mobile warfare which we all already know, but the thing I was after was how does this actually transfer into better performance in comparison to other options:
-when does that increased dps on the move outperform 5men grens who in addison to having increased dps on the move are better every other way except super close range.
-why can't we have g43s earlier to have some advantage over 5men gren so that their effective time window would be increased to the point that they would be given a thought in making a choice between 5men grens and g43s
-SOV receives their SVTs at 1CP, why can't Ost have their g43s at the same time?
What i'm trying to get to here is that the due to g43s arriving too late to influence the early game the opportunity cost of not choosing to go for LMGs or 5 men grens becomes too great to never be worth it.
1 Oct 2019, 17:35 PM
#86
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
You gave me the repeated answer of being good for mobile warfare which we all already know, but the thing I was after was how does this actually transfer into better performance in comparison to other options:
-when does that increased dps on the move outperform 5men grens who in addison to having increased dps on the move are better every other way except super close range.
Okay so upgrade vs. upgrade i think the 5 men grens are better. The difference is the options around it. I can get g43 grens on a Commander with a Tiger and SCAS, with a Tiger ACE and Stormtroopers, etc.
But if 5 man grens wasn't better than g43s, you would never pick that Commander. I feel like that's just a necessity, given the g43s available to other commanders
1 Oct 2019, 17:36 PM
#87
Posts: 4474
the fall got 2 changes, buff the mid range point (like rifle) and rof buff,
I thought you wanted to talk about g43s? I gave you more thoughts on them like you asked
???
It is a straight buff to dps from range 3 to 15
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Oct 2019, 17:47 PM
#88
Posts: 2358
If early gren lack of firepower is the thread issue, imo the solution is to use combined arms.
It is true though that G43 arrives too late for the early game time frame, but that might be intentional. Axis have a strong mid game if you consider OKW lights and OST mediums.
Early OST Infantry combat is focused on stationary gameplay and effective ground hold
Im risking my neck for this but if you need nondoc early rush firepower, you can buff pios SMG. Or use assgrens (on a totally different commander)
To buff G43 you have to consider they are the main source of blobs in OST, that is a design flaw, the original objective of the gren G43 was a reactive, panic weapon upgrade, plus the interrogation maphax
It is true though that G43 arrives too late for the early game time frame, but that might be intentional. Axis have a strong mid game if you consider OKW lights and OST mediums.
Early OST Infantry combat is focused on stationary gameplay and effective ground hold
Im risking my neck for this but if you need nondoc early rush firepower, you can buff pios SMG. Or use assgrens (on a totally different commander)
To buff G43 you have to consider they are the main source of blobs in OST, that is a design flaw, the original objective of the gren G43 was a reactive, panic weapon upgrade, plus the interrogation maphax
1 Oct 2019, 17:48 PM
#89
Posts: 177
Okay so upgrade vs. upgrade i think the 5 men grens are better. The difference is the options around it. I can get g43 grens on a Commander with a Tiger and SCAS, with a Tiger ACE and Stormtroopers, etc.
Yes if you pick your commander based on something else then of course that is going to matter because you are stuck with g43s. This still doesn't mean that g43s aren't a terrible choice at 2CP instead of LMGs so I would not use that as an argument as to why g43s have to be 2CP.
1 Oct 2019, 17:50 PM
#90
Posts: 177
If early gren lack of firepower is the thread issue, imo the solution is to use combined arms.
It is true though that G43 arrives too late for the early game time frame, but that might be intentional. Axis have a strong mid game if you consider OKW lights and OST mediums.
Early OST Infantry combat is focused on stationary gameplay and effective ground hold
I've been trying to make a point that if you already have combined arms set up then the LMGs are clearly the winning choice for ost as you can pick away at the enemy from long range and again you'll skip g43s. And that's why 1CP to increase their value.
1 Oct 2019, 17:54 PM
#91
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
the fall got 2 changes, buff the mid range point (like rifle) and rof buff,
Yeah I understood what you meant... My point is you can't just remove a buff like that. An ROF buff significantly effects dps...
You are also forgetting Far cooldown buff, and ambush bonus
This still doesn't mean that g43s aren't a terrible choice at 2CP instead of LMGs so I would not use that as an argument as to why g43s have to be 2CP.
Okay but when you're comparing them to lmg42s that's when I go back to the map dependant point. Open maps favor lmg42s, maps with more cqc and LoS blockers favor g43s
Ppshs for conscripts are cp2, so it seems pretty fair
1 Oct 2019, 18:00 PM
#92
Posts: 177
Ppshs for conscripts are cp2, so it seems pretty fair
Aren't they 3Cp No wait! they reduced the cost to 2CP for some reason… Maybe to get people using them more? I wonder If some other upgrade would also benefit from this.
Weapon crates cost 45muni at 1CP
ppsh cost 60 muni at 2CP
g43s cost 45 muni at 2CP
What's the big idea? Just either increase the cost to 60muni and buff accordingly or move them to 1CP where they should be
1 Oct 2019, 18:06 PM
#93
Posts: 4474
dude i was comparing just the change to range, if u consider falls change to range a buff than so should be the rifle, yes it increases dps form 3 to 15 range
Yeah I understood what you meant... My point is you can't just remove a buff like that. An ROF buff significantly effects dps...
You are also forgetting Far cooldown buff, and ambush bonus
so it is a straight dps increase
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Oct 2019, 18:09 PM
#94
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
dude i was comparing just the change to range,
Okay but I wasn't. This started with me saying falls got more of an actual dps buff than Rifleman. Then you decided to remove half of the buffs, because reasons.
Falls have a change that effects all ranges (rof buff, ambush bonus) Rifleman do not. Now get back to the topic, this is straying far enough away already
1 Oct 2019, 18:26 PM
#95
Posts: 4474
nope it started with u saying
Okay but I wasn't. This started with me saying falls got more of an actual dps buff than Rifleman. Then you decided to remove half of the buffs, because reasons.
Falls have a change that effects all ranges (rof buff, ambush bonus) Rifleman do not. Now get back to the topic, this is straying far enough away already
Sort of. It's still only a slight buff to close range dps. The curve just changed, but ranges 0-3 it's still the same dps
So saying it as "straight dps buff" is misleading
which is plain wrong , as from 3 to 15 there is a dps increase with no draw backs and is quite substantial at close range
then instead of saying "sorry i made a wrong statement" u decided to derail
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Oct 2019, 18:29 PM
#96
Posts: 5279
This thread is a fucking mess...
#stalinwept
1 Oct 2019, 18:29 PM
#97
Posts: 556
Grens are far from UP but I agree G43 is not a good option. It only encourages the blobby playstyle which is unfun for both user and the recieving end of the blob.
I would suggest making them into 70-75 muni 4 G43s and giving the 4 man gren squad the exact total para (6man m1 carbines) dps WITH DAMAGE DROP OFF ONT THE MOVE. It wouldn't be that oppressive since the damage drop off will be much marginal on a 4 man squad that costs 30mp to reinforce.
I would suggest making them into 70-75 muni 4 G43s and giving the 4 man gren squad the exact total para (6man m1 carbines) dps WITH DAMAGE DROP OFF ONT THE MOVE. It wouldn't be that oppressive since the damage drop off will be much marginal on a 4 man squad that costs 30mp to reinforce.
Grens are finally good.
1 Oct 2019, 18:32 PM
#98
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
nope it started with u saying
which is plain wrong , as from 3 to 15 there is a dps increase with no draw backs and is quite substantial at close range
then instead of saying "sorry i made a wrong statement" u decided to derail
What are you talking about? Where is the wrong statement? I wasn't even talking about falls in that post, so it can't be where it started....
It is not a substantial dps buff compared to falls. That is literally my entire point, which is pretty indisputable. Just look at the changelog
You are derailing this thread far more than me. I'm actually talking bout g43 grens with OP you haven't mentioned them for several posts...
1 Oct 2019, 18:35 PM
#99
Posts: 4474
.......
What are you talking about? Where is the wrong statement? I wasn't even talking about falls in that post, so it can't be where it started....
u started saying that rifle buff was not a straight dps increase, i said no it is, then u brought falls , cause u could not just say, "im wrong".....
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Oct 2019, 18:38 PM
#100
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
.......
u started saying that rifle buff was not a straight dps increase, i said no it is, then u brought falls , cause u could not just say, "im wrong".....
It's not a straight dps increase. A straight dps increase would be dps buff at all ranges. Did Riflemen get that? No. Pretty fucking simple. Don't know why you needed to drag this out over so many posts
I've literally said "im wrong" to you yourself within in the last month. Idk why you're making this personal, I admit when I'm wrong plenty
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