Howitzers were adjusted this patch with the following changes
"All howitzers start on cooldown after their barrage finishes or is interupted
All barrage cooldowns reduced by 20 seconds"
This change was not discussed much as it was not in the patch preview only the live patch. I'm not someone who uses howitzers mutch but I thought they were fine with the qualification that I must take a commander which can 1 shot them in team games.
I think it's fair that their performance not require a 1 shot ability but at the same time it is not fair that they can still be 1 shot and hard countered by prepared opponents. I would classify the mobile ones differently as they cannot be 1 shot.
What do people think of these changes?
Howitzer Ninja Changes
26 Sep 2019, 21:20 PM
#1
Posts: 818
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26 Sep 2019, 21:35 PM
#2
Posts: 416 | Subs: 1
Howitzers are difficult to balance because of their context. They're mostly for team games, and any balance found in 4v4s is pretty much coincidental.
So, my answer would be somewhere between "Not enough information" and "Doesn't matter".
So, my answer would be somewhere between "Not enough information" and "Doesn't matter".
26 Sep 2019, 21:36 PM
#3
Posts: 450
I do not think they needed the nerf. Just revert the changes and put the balancer in his timeout chair in the corner. Veterancy nerf would be better along with some little buffs. Maybe add more shells to each barrage at vet lvls instead of decreased cd.
The bigger issue is the small map sizes for teamgames, it makes flanking them impossible. General mud feels big enough to allow flanking. Maybe the map makers could add some larger maps to 4v4 and place the smaller ones in 3v3.
The bigger issue is the small map sizes for teamgames, it makes flanking them impossible. General mud feels big enough to allow flanking. Maybe the map makers could add some larger maps to 4v4 and place the smaller ones in 3v3.
26 Sep 2019, 21:47 PM
#4
Posts: 607
Does the change apply to Priest and Sexton too?
If so, IMO, the change is fine -- though it does sting howitzers who "take longer to shoot their barrage" than those who finish faster.
If so, IMO, the change is fine -- though it does sting howitzers who "take longer to shoot their barrage" than those who finish faster.
26 Sep 2019, 21:50 PM
#5
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Veterancy nerf would be better along with some little buffs. Maybe add more shells to each barrage at vet lvls instead of decreased cd.
I agree with something like this.
26 Sep 2019, 21:52 PM
#6
Posts: 450
Does the change apply to Priest and Sexton too?
If so, IMO, the change is fine -- though it does sting howitzers who "take longer to shoot their barrage" than those who finish faster.
Yes. The change just forces heavy tank doctrines. The factions with the best heavie doctrines will be used even more now. Is2,isu152,elephant,tiger,tiger ace,pershing, jagtiger meta
26 Sep 2019, 21:54 PM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I love this change.
Without it, LEFH was superior to all other howis because its barrage was so long, once it finished, it could start another one.
Without it, LEFH was superior to all other howis because its barrage was so long, once it finished, it could start another one.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Sep 2019, 22:00 PM
#8
Posts: 450
What is the range of all howitzers anyways? I think a big part of the problem is how you can place them deep behind your lines.
27 Sep 2019, 04:39 AM
#9
1 Posts: 927
B4 with vet can pretty much fire non stop now. Gets kinda imba on small maps when the distance is so short it almost always hits on target.
27 Sep 2019, 04:39 AM
#10
1 Posts: 927
I love this change.
Without it, LEFH was superior to all other howis because its barrage was so long, once it finished, it could start another one.
Ofcourse you love every change thats not good for axis.
27 Sep 2019, 05:33 AM
#11
Posts: 1954
What is the range of all howitzers anyways? I think a big part of the problem is how you can place them deep behind your lines.
I think they're all 160 until vet 3 and then have 240 range.
I tried the ML20 last night. The change to the timer is confusing. It says the ability will be ready in xx seconds. That time will pass and it still won't fire. I didn't notice this so much on the game I just played with the OKW version of the LEFH.
The LEFH still feels a little better than the ML20. It seems like the ML20 hits harder when it hits but the LEFH hits more often. Neither of them are as good as a Pwerfer or Katy.
27 Sep 2019, 05:47 AM
#12
Posts: 173
Ofcourse you love every change thats not good for axis.
Why should'nt he? Axis are in a really good spot for now, always over 50% playing, according to the counter ingame. Pgrens changes, 250 and 251 HT, vet3 gren buff and massive OKW overhaul have made already well-made army into hellish spawn of OPness. I do like play with germans, I am even sort of werhaboo myself, but I'd like me some skills.
As for topic, changes to howitzers seems good enough for me. Pre-patch both ML-20 and LeFH were able to lay continuous area-denial fire or non-stop bombardment on heavvy-traffic area, making easy kills and frustrating enemy. Also, mobile arty spam was a thing.
Now it is more like an offmap arty strike - short, effective, but with big cooldown. However, it almosti killed (IMO) any sort of mobile arty unit, so my guess is to revert chandges for them and do something else to them, like increased scatter or messing with their vet1 abilities.
27 Sep 2019, 06:56 AM
#13
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Ofcourse you love every change thats not good for axis.
Its good for consistency.
Basically having barrage so long that cooldown is irrelevant and you just keep going and going and going isn't exactly healthy for balance when everyone else needs to wait.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Sep 2019, 09:40 AM
#14
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I think they're all 160 until vet 3 and then have 240 range.
I tried the ML20 last night. The change to the timer is confusing. It says the ability will be ready in xx seconds. That time will pass and it still won't fire. I didn't notice this so much on the game I just played with the OKW version of the LEFH.
The LEFH still feels a little better than the ML20. It seems like the ML20 hits harder when it hits but the LEFH hits more often. Neither of them are as good as a Pwerfer or Katy.
LEfh-ml20 Range 35 - 250
vet 3 Range 35 - 332.5
B4 Range 35 - 250
Priest Range 35 - 180
Sexton 35-160
27 Sep 2019, 14:32 PM
#15
Posts: 1954
LEfh-ml20 Range 35 - 250
vet 3 Range 35 - 332.5
B4 Range 35 - 250
Priest Range 35 - 180
Sexton 35-160
Thanks, this makes more sense. I had a LEFH that hit vet 5 on Lienne Forrest. When it did, it could reach almost the entire map.
As for the OP's question, I think the state of counters for okay for USF, Soviet and Ost. OKW and UKF probably need improved (less expensive or more reliable) counters. I wouldn't support anything that made them harder to counter. I've had games on Poltawa that were going well until someone put up a howitzer right outside their base, protected by their Schwerer. After awhile, it's wiping infantry squads in my base. A sim city with a unit that can wipe anything, anywhere, is worse for gameplay than the Brit's sim city.
If the LEFH got a slight nerf that lowered its performance to closer to the ML20'S then I'm fine with it. I think it needed more of a scatter nerf than a ROF nerf, but am fine with either.
27 Sep 2019, 15:49 PM
#16
Posts: 955
Lefh is broken as hell assuming the barrage cooldown changes were the only ones
ML20 is Ok against on field units, but its mostly used for base-rape which is also OP
B4 is… well, a B4, glorious meme
Priest and Sexton are also fine outside of baserape
ML20 is Ok against on field units, but its mostly used for base-rape which is also OP
B4 is… well, a B4, glorious meme
Priest and Sexton are also fine outside of baserape
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
27 Sep 2019, 15:52 PM
#17
Posts: 1220
yeah this is bullshit how good is okw simcity this is like royal arty with cancer regiment in one. Without priest u will propobly lose hardly if u are usf
I've had games on Poltawa that were going well until someone put up a howitzer right outside their base, protected by their Schwerer. After awhile, it's wiping infantry squads in my base. A sim city with a unit that can wipe anything, anywhere, is worse for gameplay than the Brit's sim city.
If the LEFH got a slight nerf that lowered its performance to closer to the ML20'S then I'm fine with it. I think it needed more of a scatter nerf than a ROF nerf, but am fine with either.
27 Sep 2019, 22:12 PM
#18
Posts: 1954
yeah this is bullshit how good is okw simcity this is like royal arty with cancer regiment in one. Without priest u will propobly lose hardly if u are usf
The combination of Overwatch skill planes and Schwerer combined with units from both players make this difficult for any faction to deal with. It doesn't bother me as much in AT matches but it's really difficult in a random match. I'm not sure why the Bofors was nerfed, as it was generally a joke anyway, and this type of sim city got no nerfs. If anything, howitzers should be made easier to destroy.
BTW, I tested LEFH versus ML20. The LEFH still wins the arty fight most times, and is pretty decent at actually destroying the ML20 where the ML20 struggles to get anything better than a decrew.
28 Sep 2019, 02:09 AM
#19
Posts: 450
They should have reduced the range on the leifh and ml20 instead. The cd killed the Sexton and priest. They take up too much pop for their performance.
28 Sep 2019, 02:16 AM
#20
Posts: 810
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