Assymetric balance = best support weapons+ best infantry + best TD + free officer units... I get it.
Nah man, just nerf grens
50 cal - Why is it so good?
21 Sep 2019, 14:58 PM
#21
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Nah man, just nerf grens
21 Sep 2019, 15:00 PM
#22
Posts: 97
Someone from the balance team, please explain why USF needs a MG as potent as the 50 cal. Please elaborate why Riflemen, Rangers and Paratroopers get 50 cal as Support when Conscripts get a Maxim and the nerfed Infantry Sections get the Vickers.
To answer your question in the most succinct way: because the whole faction was designed wrong from the start and the .50 cal is just one of the things they did wrong. The M1919 should have been the stock MG, as it was in real life (but a better one than exists in game). The .50 cal should have been doctrinal because, IRL the thing is too damn heavy to be lugged around the battlefield over a man's shoulder. That's why it was mostly relegated to vehicles and garrison duty. If the game was more realistic, the .50 cal squad would fatigue after 20 seconds and have to stop for a 1 minute rest.
To offset it's quality, it was locked behind tech that requires a player to build a unit they don't really want, which adds next to nothing to their arsenal. The Vickers is T0 so, I don't mind the difference. But the T2 Maxim really is galling by comparison.
21 Sep 2019, 15:06 PM
#23
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
The balance team publicly stated they like USF faction. As simple as that. Nobody votes them, they do whatever the fk they feel like. We get the patches free so we can't really complain either.
What?
I like Sov, Wehr, USF and OKW, they're all part of what makes CoH2 the game it is. How is that bad?
Imagine if they hated a faction, now that would be bad. Hey did you notice I didn't include UKF?
21 Sep 2019, 15:06 PM
#24
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
That still doesnt explain why USF gets the best MG in COH2 while also getting the best infantry. Ost is supposed to have strong teamweapons to compensate for Grens so I understand why the MG42 is amazing but the same cant be said about the USF unit roster with strong mainline infantry + strong call ins + plenty of LV + free squads.
21 Sep 2019, 15:12 PM
#25
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It is due to faction design.
USF where meant to played with 1+major so many of their units where OP to compensate the roaster was lacking. Riflemen where the top infatry for its time frame.
Then power creep stepped in buffing other units and nerfing some of the USF units, making USF UP. Finally the USF got a new tech tree.
0.50 (and some other units) where simply not brought inline with the new tech tree.
And that is one of the reasons why Ostheer should be used as benchmark when balancing the units.
USF where meant to played with 1+major so many of their units where OP to compensate the roaster was lacking. Riflemen where the top infatry for its time frame.
Then power creep stepped in buffing other units and nerfing some of the USF units, making USF UP. Finally the USF got a new tech tree.
0.50 (and some other units) where simply not brought inline with the new tech tree.
And that is one of the reasons why Ostheer should be used as benchmark when balancing the units.
21 Sep 2019, 15:13 PM
#26
Posts: 320
Assymetric balance = best support weapons+ best infantry + best TD + free officer units... I get it.
Because MG34 is bad, volks are bad, JP4 is bad and free bofors is just as free as these officers, oh and you totally can't get stock rocket arty and stock elite infantry and stock heavy tank. For last 3 things you don't even have to pick a doctrine, which you would have to as USF. You are right, OKW is so bad compared to USF.
21 Sep 2019, 15:14 PM
#27
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
I think a part of the problem is that the .50 cal provides another source of soft AT which USF already gets allot of in the Lieutenant tier (meaning M20 zook and LT. zook), while all these three units are great against infantry aswell.
Making the AP rounds require veterancy 1 would make a large difference in balancing out its strength.
Making the AP rounds require veterancy 1 would make a large difference in balancing out its strength.
21 Sep 2019, 15:14 PM
#28
Posts: 1289
That still doesnt explain why USF gets the best MG in COH2 while also getting the best infantry. Ost is supposed to have strong teamweapons to compensate for Grens so I understand why the MG42 is amazing but the same cant be said about the USF unit roster with strong mainline infantry + strong call ins + plenty of LV + free squads.
It is more expensive just as their main inf. Its locked in a specific tech path. Unlike the vickers mg42/34 wich are always available. Why bother with it if it a bad mg?
21 Sep 2019, 15:14 PM
#29
Posts: 31
It's fine.
Comes out late, costs a lot, and has a small arc, but sets up fast and suppresses fast.
Tradeoffs.
Comes out late, costs a lot, and has a small arc, but sets up fast and suppresses fast.
Tradeoffs.
21 Sep 2019, 15:15 PM
#30
Posts: 1979
It's fine.
Comes out late, costs a lot, and has a small arc, but sets up fast and suppresses fast.
Tradeoffs.
by that argument the maxim should be much better since it comes out later than the mg42/34
21 Sep 2019, 15:17 PM
#31
Posts: 573
It's so good because originally you had to choose between it or AT gun.
Funny how 50 cal ended up being exact thing maxim is supposed to be - assault HMG with insta setup and teardown
Funny how 50 cal ended up being exact thing maxim is supposed to be - assault HMG with insta setup and teardown
21 Sep 2019, 15:20 PM
#33
Posts: 5279
Assymetric balance = best support weapons+ best infantry + best TD + free officer units... I get it.
Singular infantry choice, no sniper, double tech for at and mg. No high durability armour, no rocket arty... Don't look at it in a vacuum
#stalinwept
21 Sep 2019, 15:21 PM
#34
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Don't look at it in a vacuum
But...but...but... that's the only place where the argument works!
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Sep 2019, 15:25 PM
#35
Posts: 97
Don't look at it in a vacuum
In space, no can hear the Wehraboos scream...
21 Sep 2019, 15:31 PM
#36
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Singular infantry choice, no sniper, double tech for at and mg. No high durability armour, no rocket arty... Don't look at it in a vacuum
USF singular infantry choice LMAO
21 Sep 2019, 15:33 PM
#37
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Thread turns into maxim thread in 3 posts
Kinda offtopic: Did the patch fix the 0.5 RA modifier for retreat on the 50 and change it to 0.4 modifier? Also does the AP ammo increase suppression like the MG34 and 42 AP ammo does? Because that'd be very much helpful vs blobs.
On topic: I know the 50cal seems really good sometimes when playing against it, but using it I feel like if it doesn't suppress in 1 burst the CD just takes forever and you end up getting flanked. Had a game last night where my gunner kept getting sniped by the Ober+pfusi blob of death and my 50s could just not handle it. But USF would be a lot easier to balance if they didn't get free squads.
Kinda offtopic: Did the patch fix the 0.5 RA modifier for retreat on the 50 and change it to 0.4 modifier? Also does the AP ammo increase suppression like the MG34 and 42 AP ammo does? Because that'd be very much helpful vs blobs.
On topic: I know the 50cal seems really good sometimes when playing against it, but using it I feel like if it doesn't suppress in 1 burst the CD just takes forever and you end up getting flanked. Had a game last night where my gunner kept getting sniped by the Ober+pfusi blob of death and my 50s could just not handle it. But USF would be a lot easier to balance if they didn't get free squads.
21 Sep 2019, 15:41 PM
#38
Posts: 5279
USF singular infantry choice LMAO
Rifles or rifles with flair (officers)
Ost has grens and pgrens
OKW has sturms volks and obers
Soviet has cons and penals.
#stalinwept
21 Sep 2019, 15:51 PM
#39
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Yes lets just ignore all the doctrines because there certainly arent Pathfinders IR Pathfinders Paras Rangers Cav Riflemen and Assault engineers in your load out.
21 Sep 2019, 15:56 PM
#40
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
.... Also does the AP ammo increase suppression like the MG34 and 42 AP ammo does? Because that'd be very much helpful vs blobs.
The AP rounds of the weapon you have mentioned all increase damage and penetration and there is little reason that they should also increase suppression (unless damage is somehow connected...)
On topic: I know the 50cal seems really good sometimes when playing against it, but using it I feel like if it doesn't suppress in 1 burst the CD just takes forever and you end up getting flanked. Had a game last night where my gunner kept getting sniped by the Ober+pfusi blob of death and my 50s could just not handle it. But USF would be a lot easier to balance if they didn't get free squads.
1) Having the gunner targeted is in way "bad luck" since the other crew member should have priority. Probably only the gunner was in range...
2) Note that vet 1 increases the suppression of the weapon.
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