allow 7 man Conscripts PPSH41 or PTRS

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 21:56 PMLago

Global upgrades are anathema to mixed compositions.

Making Conscripts cheaper won't fix the fundamental design problem with global upgrades. Conscript upgrades are only cost effective if you build several squads, so there's little point mixing them into other builds.

Why would people build Conscripts when they're rewarded so heavily for not doing so?

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 09:03 AMullumulu

it seems some guys here know only the Performance from cons patches ago. Today they arent useless and perform ok for their price, surviveabilty, Abilitys and tool. And in the sov faction as it is now.

what do u want? Grens, IS or rifles dps? 0.8 model size? seriously? for the cheapest mainline with 6(7) models with the highest Ability set....than make the price around 300.

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 20:28 PMthedarkarmadillo

Its not alone I'm that slot. It's also got hit the dirt which 7 man squads can do.
The ppsh comes much sooner.
It's a trade off and is absolutely valuable in limited quantity for more urban areas.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:18 AMT.R. Stormjäger

Not sure if it's relevant, but with the amount of PPSH submachine guns used in rifle divisions in 1944-1945, you'd think the conscript assault package would be a stock upgrade, especially considering STGs are stock for OKW.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:18 AMT.R. Stormjäger

Not sure if it's relevant, but with the amount of PPSH submachine guns used in rifle divisions in 1944-1945, you'd think the conscript assault package would be a stock upgrade, especially considering STGs are stock for OKW.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:24 AMullumulu

not sure why a 7model 240mp squad should have the close dps from pgrens which cost 100mp more and have only 4models.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:29 AMullumulu

lets resume:

- 6(7) models
- 240mp
- t0
- sprint
- merge
- sandbags
- upgradeable with flame nades and at nades
- now with ppsh nondoc (pgrens dps)

yeah..why not...lol

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:32 AMflyingpancake

I think stormjager meant it like mutually exclusive.

swapping the PPSH in docterines for 7th man and making them mutually exclusive like they are now since the 7th man is clearly better and russians used fuck tons of PPSH in the war so it has some historical basis.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:32 AMflyingpancake

I think stormjager meant it like mutually exclusive.

swapping the PPSH in docterines for 7th man and making them mutually exclusive like they are now since the 7th man is clearly better and russians used fuck tons of PPSH in the war so it has some historical basis.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:34 AMullumulu

even with 6models it would be too good nondoc

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:42 AMflyingpancake

LOL no

unlike the other mainline upgrades the PPSH have severe tactical downsides that do not really synergies well with the unit holding them unlike the others

Grenadier MG42: unit focused on long range so the slight inconvenience of not being able to fire the MG42 on the move is not that big of a deal since you are supposed to keep at range anyway.

Section Bren: see Grenadier

Volksgrenadier MP44: mid to short range damage increase that is useful in all engagements

Bar Rifles: see Volksgrenadier

Conscripts: Increase short range fire power (and I mean stepping on toes short) in place for mid to long range fire power on a unit that dies fast and has no smoke.

So no, switching 7th man for PPSH would not be OP as they stand now.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:49 AMullumulu

i guess u never uses ppsh cons with sprint? they close the distance with losing mostly one model. after this they shred all above other units u mentioned.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:50 AMKatitof

I guess you've never used PGs, who beat them without much of a fuss, or HMG42, which stops them dead in their tracks.

You do realize that ost can build something else but grens?

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 10:29 AMflyingpancake

Even in urban maps the 7th man is the better option because of long term cost. Urban maps tend to be meatgrindy and wipey so the cheaper reinforcement cost plus larger squad size is far the superior option. Especially against OKW where almost all infantry has some automatic or another so they drop a few models before you get close, 7th man doesn't have this problem.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 11:49 AMullumulu

i guess u never uses ppsh cons with sprint? they close the distance with losing mostly one model. after this they shred all above other units u mentioned.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 14:04 PMflyingpancake

I do use Urrah sprint a lot actually. My early game soviet build is 3 cons into Molotov to deal with Mg42's so I'd like to think I understand the concept of cons sprinting.

Cons usually get schredded way before they close in even especially with the amount of panzergrenadiers on the field now a days.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2019, 12:27 PMthedarkarmadillo

That's great if you want to wait until you are building tanks to use cons. If you want to have a bit more punch sooner you can opt to go ppsh. You don't have to upgrade everyone, and if you are taking losses while closing you arnt using it right. The pint of using it in urban areas is so you have sight blockers to help you get in there.
It's niche but not useless