Bring B4 howi back to tank hunter tactics

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 15:56 PMKirrik

Played this commander countless times, I know what I'm talking about. vehicle camo is stupid gimmick fitting mostly for stealth recon for T-70. It's useless for actual tank destroyers because it renders them stationary and reduces rotation to extreme degree. Useless against both panthers and superheavy TD's

And PTRS conscripts being dedicated AT squad is sick joke, those PTRS are useless against tanks ever since their deflection damaged was nerfed several times over.

This commander is partysan tier at best.

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 16:53 PMGrumpy

This was my experience with it. Unless the Panther is moving in your firing arc you will lose getting the first shot in, and having to toggle the ability and then start firing makes you much more likely to lose the SU85.

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 16:24 PMGrumpy

Find the patch notes yourself, since your insisting that it didn't change. Post your playercard while you're at it. I don't care about the ranking, but am pretty sure it will show axis-only.

Anyone who ever used it knows that it used to wipe arty, team weapons, take most of the health of a truck, and would finish heavies if you could catch them repairing. Paying 250 munitions to do about 200-300 damage (AND A STUN OMG) to a tank IF they don't pay attention to it for 3 seconds or more isn't effective. The standard IL2 bombing run would be an improvement over it.

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 20:32 PMJibberJabberJobber

I don't want to see more B4's ingame, it's a stupid unit concept.

A Sturmtiger / AVRE that can fire from enormous range is not fun gameplay at all and goes against the whole point of a CoH game.

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 20:09 PMSkysTheLimit

Seriously? You should be the one to prove it, especially since you already have the numbers wrong

It doesn't cost 250 munitions, it costs 180. "Anyone who ever used it"...... yeah okay....

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:01 PMGrumpy

So I had the price (180) wrong. The damage on it was changed. The patch notes don't show it, but before the community balance team there were always changes that didn't make the patch notes. I wasn't the only one who noticed it. There was a thread about it.

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:01 PMGrumpy

Playercard?

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 19:53 PMSkysTheLimit

This is all completely wrong, and screams that you've never really tried the Commander. I use it regularly in 2v2s

Su85 is already bad against super heavy TDs, why would you be using it against them? Ram with a t34, call in il2 AT strike, and that thing is screwed. I've killed 2 elefants in one game before just like that

Ptrs cons are amazing. The fact that you think their terrible is truly remarkable. You get 3 ptrs, so it's 120 dmg if all 3 penetrate. The snare is the real power though, 360 damage and a dead engine.



If you keep some tank hunter conscripts near the su85, that panther is screwed if it tries to rush you. Camo the cons near the su85, put on hold fire, and ambush. Ptrs cons are very very very good

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:24 PMSkysTheLimit

You had the price wrong by 70 munitions, and you asserted it without any proof while telling me I needed to get some. You still don't have proof the damage was changed, but you're asserting it anyway...

The strike can absolutely still do that damage, it just depends on how many bombs hit. You also seem to think that stunning a tank is not valuable, which is ridiculous. Gives you more time to snare or flank.

Btw that video is meaningless if you don't have a current one to compare it to....



You don't show yours and it's irrelevant to this conversation, stop acting like a 5 year old

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:43 PMKirrik

Ram+PTAB does not work on large maps genius and can be prevented by just single mainline squad with faust
PTRS cons are garbage because PTRS are useless unless you have 4+ squad blob but even then you will do no alpha damage and anything above 180 armor will escape. Grenade assault is too clunky and will never work unless vehicle was either ambushed or already snared, heck even snared vehicles will escape it without sprint and lower model count decreases damage way below that of satchel
Honestly that entire commander is joke at tank hunting compared to ISU+Mark+Guard or Guard+Mark+34-85

This commander is rarer in 4v4 than Partysan doctrine, thats say a lot about it's viablity even as a meme

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:43 PMKirrik

Ram+PTAB does not work on large maps genius and can be prevented by just single mainline squad with faust

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:43 PMKirrik

PTRS cons are garbage because PTRS are useless unless you have 4+ squad blob but even then you will do no alpha damage and anything above 180 armor will escape.

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:43 PMKirrik

Grenade assault is too clunky and will never work unless vehicle was either ambushed or already snared

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:43 PMKirrik

heck even snared vehicles will escape it without sprint

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:43 PMKirrik

and lower model count decreases damage way below that of satchel

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:43 PMKirrik

This commander is rarer in 4v4 than Partysan doctrine, thats say a lot about it's viablity even as a meme

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:59 PMGrumpy

finally, you didn't like that the old replay shows you wrong,

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 23:59 PMGrumpy

My player card is attached to my profile. I asked for yours because you sound like one of the players that insists the maxim is the best MG in the game.

Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 00:14 AMSkysTheLimit

Not true. A single mainline with a faust will not stop a t34. You need to hit it with something else first, just like any medium tank.... Forgetting the 75% threshold for engine damage?

Only hard to use on big maps if the target is directly in the middle. Even then, the bombing run covers a huge area...



Again not true at all. 1 squad by itself does 120 dmg with penetration, and they reload much faster than zooks or shrecks



Good thing the upgrade comes with camo....



Good thing you get to keep hoorah.... And if you're any good at ambushing you don't need it anyway. Just use hold fire to give the proper surprise



Even if it's only 4 models it will still do same damage as satchel (240) without the risk of hurting your own squad. And it has more range, and you have camo, and the squad is cheaper to build/reinforce.



Actually that says a whole lot of nothing. You know what else is rare in 4v4? Skill. Like i said I use it in 2v2s all the time

Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 01:07 AMKirrik

What 120 damage you're talking about? You know PTRS Pen stats? You realize grenades also dont always pen for full damage, you realize even with oorah you cant just sprint and grenade assault because reservsing vehicle will cancel grenade windup animation? Furthermore grenade full damage is 50 and 40 with deflection, its always worse than satchel in every situation

A single shot from anything and faust makes ram useless and you'll never reach those elefants/JT's if enemy player does not misplay badly, especially if he spots PTRS knows and knows you're doctrine pick

All I'm seeing a person who probably never played doctrine much and just theorycrafts scenarios that improbable to pull of in actual game.

Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 01:44 AMSkysTheLimit

Lol it's not theories buddy, you just have to stop playing 4v4. It actually works in the game modes that are actually balanced...

Satchel damage is 240 btw, so no, it does not do more damage than AT assault in "any situation". Again, that's not true

Idk why you come to the balance section and talk about 4v4. 4v4 Gameplay doesn't even closely resemble that from 1s and 2s, where balance is actually possible...

Jump back to quoted post17 Sep 2019, 20:03 PMmurky depths

ML-20 (and LEFH) are boring.

B4 is at least exciting.

Yeah yeah, RNG blah blah, sod off. I want to have fun with my commander picks and not just gain a 5% marginal advantage.

Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 02:19 AMKirrik

Satchel can be thrown even with a single model to deal full damage, you'll guaranteed that 240 damage compared AT grenades that harder to pull off and depend on number of model in one of the most frail squads in game, you'll be getting more damage from grenade assault only during ambush or forum theorycrafting

So far I have not seen a single argument from you on why this doctrine isnt dogshit aside of "lul 4v4" despite the fact that 4v4 is the place for meme tactics and doctrines. And I didnt see this doctrine in month even in that casual mode.

Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 02:30 AMSkysTheLimit

I mean you went the entire ostwind thread ignoring arguments and evidence so what else is new?

You keep saying "only if you ambush". So ambush!!!! It comes with the fucking upgrade, it's not that difficult to do...

Meanwhile you can see ptrs panels a mile away, and the snare has shorter range...

Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 02:44 AMdistrofio

Could you please keep on topic? Its very hard to read through so much offtopic, i dont really care if you use your whole post to insult other person, just prove your point.

Jump back to quoted post18 Sep 2019, 02:30 AMSkysTheLimit

I mean you went the entire ostwind thread ignoring arguments and evidence so what else is new?

You keep saying "only if you ambush". So ambush!!!! It comes with the fucking upgrade, it's not that difficult to do...

Meanwhile you can see ptrs panels a mile away, and the snare has shorter range...