Bring B4 howi back to tank hunter tactics
17 Sep 2019, 00:13 AM
#1
Posts: 593
Hello everyone. after alot of playing with the commander i feel like the 152 howi just dont fit this commander at all. the 152 howi dont kill tanks its meant to fend off inf from positions ect. i remember the B4 howi being in the commander before and it was fun and i would sometimes use it cuz i can try to damage a tank. i think we need to bring back b4 in tank hunter commander cuz it makes way more sense and theres already alot of commanders with 152s and the b4 is only in 1 commander. i would like to see it changed! what do everyone else think?? b4 is a tank killer... 152 isnt!
17 Sep 2019, 00:36 AM
#2
Posts: 1954
The B4 would fit in perfectly, as the rest of the doctrine doesn't do much either. The PTRS's were gimped. The bombing run which used to be useful won't kill tanks now, as that was deemed unfair. The bombing run won't kill howitzers or much of anything else. The AT grenades are okay if you can snare a LV or maybe a P4. The doctrine went from OP to terrible in one patch.
17 Sep 2019, 01:17 AM
#3
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The B4 would fit in perfectly, as the rest of the doctrine doesn't do much either. The PTRS's were gimped. The bombing run which used to be useful won't kill tanks now, as that was deemed unfair. The bombing run won't kill howitzers or much of anything else. The AT grenades are okay if you can snare a LV or maybe a P4. The doctrine went from OP to terrible in one patch.
The AT nade assault isn't "okay" it's amazing. The squad has camo too so you can easily ambush vehicles, especially since you keep hoorah as well
What patch are you referring too? The bombing run is still really good, idk what nerf you're talking about. Don't think the cmdr got any nerfs in latest patch (unless you count howy cooldowns)
To OPs point the b4 would be better than the ml20 as far as theme goes. Idk if the rest of the community is ready for another b4 cmdr though
17 Sep 2019, 01:45 AM
#4
Posts: 593
Sky u said >>To OPs point the b4 would be better than the ml20 as far as theme goes. Idk if the rest of the community is ready for another b4 cmdr though
so your saying no cause your think the community isnt ready for another cmndr lol "good" arguement?
17 Sep 2019, 02:30 AM
#5
Posts: 65
Remove ml-20, get isu-152 then.
Make this commander great again.
Make this commander great again.
17 Sep 2019, 02:55 AM
#6
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
so your saying no cause your think the community isnt ready for another cmndr lol "good" arguement?
No, im saying I don't know if its a good idea. The commander is already pretty good
I literally went out of my way not to say yes or no. Its a big change and suggesting the commander needs the b4 to be good is flat out wrong. Its already a pretty good commander
The il2 bombing run combined with t34 ram is devastating against heavies
17 Sep 2019, 02:57 AM
#7
Posts: 2358
+1 to OP.
Even if we manage to make a good thread we can buff B4s into usefullness.
Fingers crossed comrade!
Even if we manage to make a good thread we can buff B4s into usefullness.
Fingers crossed comrade!
17 Sep 2019, 04:47 AM
#8
Posts: 1954
The AT nade assault isn't "okay" it's amazing. The squad has camo too so you can easily ambush vehicles, especially since you keep hoorah as well
What patch are you referring too? The bombing run is still really good, idk what nerf you're talking about. Don't think the cmdr got any nerfs in latest patch (unless you count howy cooldowns)
To OPs point the b4 would be better than the ml20 as far as theme goes. Idk if the rest of the community is ready for another b4 cmdr though
The bombing run was nerfed several patches ago. I just tried it in a game to see if I was remembering it correctly. I did.
The bombing run now takes out about 1/4 of the health of a Panther on a direct hit. It sometimes decrews weapon teams but not reliably, nor does it kill the weapon. It's easily the worst bombing run of any in the game.
The ML20 is terrible compared to the LEFH. It's so inaccurate that its almost as worthless as the B4.
The anti-tank mine needs mine traps added to the ability. With no way to funnel tanks, it's really random trying to get close enough to use the anti-tank grenades. Also, the tank hunters still need their molos and snares.
17 Sep 2019, 05:33 AM
#9
Posts: 573
No, im saying I don't know if its a good idea. The commander is already pretty good
I literally went out of my way not to say yes or no. Its a big change and suggesting the commander needs the b4 to be good is flat out wrong. Its already a pretty good commander
The il2 bombing run combined with t34 ram is devastating against heavies
In what alternative universe this commander is considered good? PTRS conscripts are garbage, their anti-infantry DPS equals to CE with minesweeper and they cant do anything against tanks with PTRS, their grenades are laughably hard to land outside of ambush compared to even 10 range AT satchel.
PTRS upgrade is supposed to be the point of this doctrine but it's absolute dogshit compared to just getting Guards or upgrading single Penal squad who can do same without wasting popcap.
For a tank hunting doctrine this commander does not offer T-34-85 or mark target or ISU or anything thats actually useful against TANKS. And if you need something to deal with cars there are better ways to do it than wasting doctrine while playing most doctrine-reliant faction.
Honestly it's probably THE worst commander in game, with only PTAB being useful ability. At very least B4 can provide memes before it's inevitably gets flared and dive bombed.
17 Sep 2019, 07:11 AM
#10
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Hello everyone. after alot of playing with the commander i feel like the 152 howi just dont fit this commander at all. the 152 howi dont kill tanks its meant to fend off inf from positions ect. i remember the B4 howi being in the commander before and it was fun and i would sometimes use it cuz i can try to damage a tank. i think we need to bring back b4 in tank hunter commander cuz it makes way more sense and theres already alot of commanders with 152s and the b4 is only in 1 commander. i would like to see it changed! what do everyone else think?? b4 is a tank killer... 152 isnt!
B4 was not in the Commander, actually the commander should not have an artillery piece since it is designed as an AT commander and not AI.
In addition contrary to claims the bomb run has not be nerfed.
17 Sep 2019, 09:01 AM
#11
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
i have been using this commander for the last couple of days with great success and i love it
the at nade assault ability indeed is amazing coupled with conscript camo
the mini at mines are okay-ish...you can plant them everywhere as a pastime in the lategame when you float munis
soviet at gun camo is something people usually don't expect, and you can capitalize on that...and the vehicle camo is something that most players don't know exists and can be used very well with a recon mode t70 or a su85
the howie is a great tool to have, it's usually more effective over time than a b4
and the bombing run is amazing coupled with a ramming t34... it's also very effective against okw trucks
the at nade assault ability indeed is amazing coupled with conscript camo
the mini at mines are okay-ish...you can plant them everywhere as a pastime in the lategame when you float munis
soviet at gun camo is something people usually don't expect, and you can capitalize on that...and the vehicle camo is something that most players don't know exists and can be used very well with a recon mode t70 or a su85
the howie is a great tool to have, it's usually more effective over time than a b4
and the bombing run is amazing coupled with a ramming t34... it's also very effective against okw trucks
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
17 Sep 2019, 15:20 PM
#12
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The bombing run was nerfed several patches ago. I just tried it in a game to see if I was remembering it correctly. I did.
The bombing run now takes out about 1/4 of the health of a Panther on a direct hit. It sometimes decrews weapon teams but not reliably, nor does it kill the weapon. It's easily the worst bombing run of any in the game.
This is simply untrue. Go to the changelog and specifically find me the changes you're talking about
The bombing runs damage is still good AND it stuns tanks
In what alternative universe this commander is considered good? PTRS conscripts are garbage, their anti-infantry DPS equals to CE with minesweeper and they cant do anything against tanks with PTRS, their grenades are laughably hard to land outside of ambush compared to even 10 range AT satchel.
PTRS upgrade is supposed to be the point of this doctrine but it's absolute dogshit compared to just getting Guards or upgrading single Penal squad who can do same without wasting popcap.
For a tank hunting doctrine this commander does not offer T-34-85 or mark target or ISU or anything thats actually useful against TANKS. And if you need something to deal with cars there are better ways to do it than wasting doctrine while playing most doctrine-reliant faction.
Honestly it's probably THE worst commander in game, with only PTAB being useful ability. At very least B4 can provide memes before it's inevitably gets flared and dive bombed.
I'm willing to bet you've tried the Commander like 2 times... Most of this is wrong
He gets camo for all tanks/AT guns, which provides ambush bonus and a great bombing run. "Nothing good against tanks?"
Tank hunter conscripts are amazing. Pointing out the AI damage of a dedicated AT squad is in interesting argument... They get camo, 3 ptrs, the best snare in the game, and vehicle detection. If you think it sucks you haven't really tried it or you're just really bad
17 Sep 2019, 15:24 PM
#13
Posts: 607
B4 wasn't in it before, but it was an idea that was entertained briefly during one of the patch cycles.
Anyway, yes, replace ML-20 with B4. It works better for AT purposes and we already have ML-20 in a bunch of commanders.
Anyway, yes, replace ML-20 with B4. It works better for AT purposes and we already have ML-20 in a bunch of commanders.
17 Sep 2019, 15:56 PM
#14
Posts: 573
This is simply untrue. Go to the changelog and specifically find me the changes you're talking about
The bombing runs damage is still good AND it stuns tanks
I'm willing to bet you've tried the Commander like 2 times... Most of this is wrong
He gets camo for all tanks/AT guns, which provides ambush bonus and a great bombing run. "Nothing good against tanks?"
Tank hunter conscripts are amazing. Pointing out the AI damage of a dedicated AT squad is in interesting argument... They get camo, 3 ptrs, the best snare in the game, and vehicle detection. If you think it sucks you haven't really tried it or you're just really bad
Played this commander countless times, I know what I'm talking about. vehicle camo is stupid gimmick fitting mostly for stealth recon for T-70. It's useless for actual tank destroyers because it renders them stationary and reduces rotation to extreme degree. Useless against both panthers and superheavy TD's
And PTRS conscripts being dedicated AT squad is sick joke, those PTRS are useless against tanks ever since their deflection damaged was nerfed several times over.
This commander is partysan tier at best.
17 Sep 2019, 16:00 PM
#15
Posts: 3260
All the community balance teams have flip-flopped on Tank Hunter's howitzer.
The B4 is more thematically appropriate.
The ML-20 is actually good.
Which wins out?
The B4 is more thematically appropriate.
The ML-20 is actually good.
Which wins out?
17 Sep 2019, 16:04 PM
#16
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
All the community balance teams have flip-flopped on Tank Hunter's howitzer.
The B4 is more thematically appropriate.
The ML-20 is actually good.
Which wins out?
An AT oriented commander should not have access to doctrinal AI weapons like a howitzer...It simply does not fit the theme. Unless one actually redesign the B4 to work more like Pak43.
17 Sep 2019, 16:09 PM
#17
Posts: 573
All the community balance teams have flip-flopped on Tank Hunter's howitzer.
The B4 is more thematically appropriate.
The ML-20 is actually good.
Which wins out?
ML-20 is not good at all since uncounterable flares and doctrines like recon+elefant+dive bomb exist.
Whats even worse ML-20 is much more noticeable than B4, which usually gets spotted only after blob or repairing P4 suddenly blows up.
17 Sep 2019, 16:24 PM
#18
Posts: 1954
This is simply untrue. Go to the changelog and specifically find me the changes you're talking about
The bombing runs damage is still good AND it stuns tanks.
Find the patch notes yourself, since your insisting that it didn't change. Post your playercard while you're at it. I don't care about the ranking, but am pretty sure it will show axis-only.
Anyone who ever used it knows that it used to wipe arty, team weapons, take most of the health of a truck, and would finish heavies if you could catch them repairing. Paying 250 munitions to do about 200-300 damage (AND A STUN OMG) to a tank IF they don't pay attention to it for 3 seconds or more isn't effective. The standard IL2 bombing run would be an improvement over it.
17 Sep 2019, 16:53 PM
#19
Posts: 1954
Played this commander countless times, I know what I'm talking about. vehicle camo is stupid gimmick fitting mostly for stealth recon for T-70. It's useless for actual tank destroyers because it renders them stationary and reduces rotation to extreme degree. Useless against both panthers and superheavy TD's
And PTRS conscripts being dedicated AT squad is sick joke, those PTRS are useless against tanks ever since their deflection damaged was nerfed several times over.
This commander is partysan tier at best.
This was my experience with it. Unless the Panther is moving in your firing arc you will lose getting the first shot in, and having to toggle the ability and then start firing makes you much more likely to lose the SU85.
I do like the stealth for the AT guns and cons in the early to mid game. I was able to kill a few vehicles with stealth and AT grenades but the PTRS upgrade makes them trash as infantry. It can be fun to play this doctrine, but only against opponents that I could beat without using any commander. Its probably the worst of the 22 Soviet commanders.
17 Sep 2019, 16:59 PM
#20
Posts: 1954
All the community balance teams have flip-flopped on Tank Hunter's howitzer.
The B4 is more thematically appropriate.
The ML-20 is actually good.
Which wins out?
Both the B4 and ML20 have life spans of a couple minutes in most games. The ML20 fires mores shells and is more likely to hit something but neither are what I would describe as good. On the rare game that Axis doesn't have howitzer counters, the ML20 is usually better. The scatter on the B4 seems to be much worse than the targeting circle indicates.
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