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Maxim Overperforming

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elchino7
16 Sep 2019, 16:38 PM
#81
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 09:03 AMgbem
Im clicking below my dp and i can see it just fine...


Go to your profile, update profile and set the steam part from private to public.

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 12:28 PMthekingsown10


Exactly, some players completely forget the massive strengths the maxim has with super fast set up times , a larger arc than originally intended, an insane 6 man team weapon squad, a higher sustained fire rate, higher damage and now increased suppression which is totally unnecessary and does nothing but promote maxim spam again.


Do you realise as explained by Sanders on page 1, what the change to Maxims were at all ?

Are you blobbing squads against Maxims? If the answer is not, the MG is as shitty as before.

My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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SkysTheLimit
16 Sep 2019, 16:42 PM
#82
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 12:28 PMthekingsown10


Exactly, some players completely forget the massive strengths the maxim has with super fast set up times ,


Update your game. The maxim doesn't have a super fast setup anymore

You are wrong in multiple ways, it sounds like you've never even used a maxim
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Sander93
16 Sep 2019, 16:50 PM
#83
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 13:48 PMBalanced_Gamer
It would be similar to USF 50cal MG. That does not have a deathloop at all!


The M2HB most definitely has a deathloop, at least on retreat. If the model carrying the gun dies, the gun drops to the ground and another model has to pick it up. Unlike the HMG 42/34 and Vickers, that simply "teleport" to other models.
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Balanced_Gamer
16 Sep 2019, 20:34 PM
#84
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Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 16:50 PMSander93


The M2HB most definitely has a deathloop, at least on retreat. If the model carrying the gun dies, the gun drops to the ground and another model has to pick it up. Unlike the HMG 42/34 and Vickers, that simply "teleport" to other models.


It happens to all MGs even to the AT support weapons. Teleport thing happens sometimes but not all the time.
I enjoy Coh2. I want this game to be balanced as it can possibly be forukfukfusfusfokwokwsovietssovietsostheerostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. B-)

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Sander93
16 Sep 2019, 20:47 PM
#85
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 20:34 PMBalanced_Gamer
It happens to all MGs even to the AT support weapons. Teleport thing happens sometimes but not all the time.


No it does not. Retreating HMG 42, HMG 34 and Vickers crews never drop the weapon on retreat (unless the last model dies obviously). If the model carrying the gun dies, the gun just teleports to another model and the squad never stops running.

The M2HB, Maxim and DsHK on the other hand all have deathloops. If while retreating the model carrying the gun dies, the gun drops to the ground and another has to come pick it up, making it much easier to wipe these HMGs on retreat than the other three. As long as you're lucky enough to snipe the gunner model.
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Mazianni
16 Sep 2019, 20:54 PM
#86
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Fun fact: The .50 cal also has a worse retreating RA than any other squad. 0.5 to 0.4.
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Balanced_Gamer
16 Sep 2019, 21:01 PM
#87
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 20:47 PMSander93


No it does not. Retreating HMG 42, HMG 34 and Vickers crews never drop the weapon on retreat (unless the last model dies obviously). If the model carrying the gun dies, the gun just teleports to another model and the squad never stops running.

The M2HB, Maxim and DsHK on the other hand all have deathloops. If while retreating the model carrying the gun dies, the gun drops to the ground and another has to come pick it up, making it much easier to wipe these HMGs on retreat than the other three. As long as you're lucky enough to snipe the gunner model.


I guess they should add also the teleport feature for others that dont have it already.

Quite annoying when there is always a huge delay on the retreat when the unit focuses a long 2-3 seconds to pick it up after a guy who lifted it.

Same thing with Raketenwerfer, it has that very same deathloop also which bugged me a lot among other annoying features.

I enjoy Coh2. I want this game to be balanced as it can possibly be forukfukfusfusfokwokwsovietssovietsostheerostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. B-)

This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144

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Mazianni
16 Sep 2019, 21:05 PM
#88
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 21:01 PMBalanced_Gamer


I guess they should add also the teleport feature for others that dont have it already.

Quite annoying when there is always a huge delay on the retreat when the unit focuses a long 2-3 seconds to pick it up after a guy who lifted it.

Same thing with Raketenwerfer, it has that very same deathloop also which bugged me a lot among other annoying features.



It is apparently impossible to fix on account of requiring new animation sets, something the dev team cannot create. (along with not being able to make new models, etc)

And the raketenwerfer is subject to the same loop as any other AT gun (though less so for it's retreat RA)
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Balanced_Gamer
16 Sep 2019, 22:10 PM
#89
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 21:05 PMMazianni


It is apparently impossible to fix on account of requiring new animation sets, something the dev team cannot create. (along with not being able to make new models, etc)

And the raketenwerfer is subject to the same loop as any other AT gun (though less so for it's retreat RA)


For USF MG I would say make it 5 man but takes slightly longer than it is now to set up in order for it to be balanced.

Maxim make it 5 man first, increase suppression and also increase slightly its set up time. Performance improvement and changes in order to avoid this spam-able feature. See how it all goes.

At least they would get a benefit from retreating better and performance wise.
I enjoy Coh2. I want this game to be balanced as it can possibly be forukfukfusfusfokwokwsovietssovietsostheerostheer. Do not judge me, for my opinion is balanced. B-)

This is my playercard number if you are curious: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198127033144

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thedarkarmadillo
16 Sep 2019, 23:28 PM
#90
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 22:10 PMBalanced_Gamer


For USF MG I would say make it 5 man but takes slightly longer than it is now to set up in order for it to be balanced.

Maxim make it 5 man first, increase suppression and also increase slightly its set up time. Performance improvement and changes in order to avoid this spam-able feature. See how it all goes.

At least they would get a benefit from retreating better and performance wise.

You seem to be having a really hard time understanding this... Reducing the crew number on the maxim will only make death loop worse. You can try it with every combo of numbers less than now and the deathloop won't be fixed, oh quite the opposite! It will be worse! 5 models is 1 less model to die before being wiped, 1 less model to share damage meaning more concentrated DPS meaning more likely TO START a deathloop.

The only way I could see a man reduction is if somehow the gunner alone can have a damage reduction so that they won't be dropped constantly

It was less of an issue I'd like to add before flame nade throwing, assault rifle volks were added to the fold...
#stalinwept
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SkysTheLimit
16 Sep 2019, 23:31 PM
#91
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 23:28 PMthedarkarmadillo


The only way I could see a man reduction is if somehow the gunner alone can have a damage reduction so that they won't be dropped constantly


Or they could maybe change the retreat modifiers to compensate. Give it a slightly larger RA reduction on retreating to make up for the death loop (assuming it's true that it just can't be fixed for animation reasons)
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Mazianni
16 Sep 2019, 23:35 PM
#92
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 23:31 PMSkysTheLimit


Or they could maybe change the retreat modifiers to compensate. Give it a slightly larger RA reduction on retreating to make up for the death loop (assuming it's true that it just can't be fixed for animation reasons)


This was my idea, doesn't even have to be a big reduction, just something


And while at it, normalizing the M2HB retreat RA would be nice...
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SkysTheLimit
16 Sep 2019, 23:37 PM
#93
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 23:35 PMMazianni


This was my idea, doesn't even have to be a big reduction, just something


And while at it, normalizing the M2HB retreat RA would be nice...


Yes i believe it was your thread about m2hb bug that I stole the idea from. At least i assume it's bug, idk why they would purposefully make it different
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Mazianni
16 Sep 2019, 23:48 PM
#94
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 23:37 PMSkysTheLimit


Yes i believe it was your thread about m2hb bug that I stole the idea from. At least i assume it's bug, idk why they would purposefully make it different


I specifically asked about it in the September patch thread and was told it was 'not a high priority', so I have to assume it is part of some sort of convoluted balance equation rather than an 'oopsie'. But who can say, I suppose. Obviously the balance team is aware of the discrepancy; I just wish there was a clear answer on it's place in the game.

I also have to wonder if the retreat RA does not carry over into USF-recrewed MGs of other factions in the same way that crew size does for say, Soviets. That would be unfortunate, but at least it would then be consistent for the faction? I guess?
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Mr Carmine
17 Sep 2019, 01:28 AM
#95
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 22:10 PMBalanced_Gamer


For USF MG I would say make it 5 man but takes slightly longer than it is now to set up in order for it to be balanced.

Maxim make it 5 man first, increase suppression and also increase slightly its set up time. Performance improvement and changes in order to avoid this spam-able feature. See how it all goes.

At least they would get a benefit from retreating better and performance wise.


I would not touch the .50 other then rec acc of 1.25 down to 1.0. I read that its retreat acc is also worse. Dont know if that is true but if it is normalize it.

Like i had worries about shreck blobs returning. Some have worries about maxim spam returning. But if the maxim capable now you dont need to spam them to get them to do their job. Unlike now and way in the past.

For maxim first drop its price to 240mp. Imo there is nothing that justifies a 260 mp price tag plus tech.
Its setup is not much quicker then mg42. Its unpack is faster. Nerfing setup is not needed. Adjust its rec acc to 1.0 to soften the deathloop.

Or increase it supression and aoe supression so nading or deathlooping it frontaly with a single squad is not possible anymore. Adjust traverse if it becomes to good at stopping spread out squads on the outer edges of the arc aproaching it.
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mrgame2
17 Sep 2019, 02:42 AM
#96
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I don't get the logic players spam maxim because it is poor suppression?
Like spam happens only because it provides a good winning chance if played a certain manner.
Makin maxim stronger will make it get spam harder is more logical result..

Anyway i never said buff maxim is op or mg42 is up
What i want to remind is some love can be given to mg42 mid-late game performance, simply since allies infantry blob scales beyond mg42 intention. Maxim got free love now, when is mg42?

Some of you wrote as if maxim is useless unit. I dont think so. If you used as mg42, passively anticipate, set a backline cutoff, sure it is not as good as mg42.

But if you use it more aggressively further forward, it presents great problem for wehrboo infantry which are not as good countering team weapons
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distrofio
17 Sep 2019, 03:19 AM
#97
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 11:04 AMthedarkarmadillo

That's the problem though. The maxim is amazing if spammed but trash if not. We don't want maxim spam. We want it to be a SUPPORT weapon

Great point, 100% valid, but maybe the new maxim design is just "strength in swarms" but counterable at least. Like T34, 1 is crap, but 6, you better start praying.

Maxims are not overperfoming though. They are 'performing' to be very generous in my judging.
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Mr Carmine
17 Sep 2019, 04:13 AM
#98
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The mg 42 does not need a mid or late game buff. It has great suprssion, strong vet ability, good dps, big arc, is t0.


The brumbar excists, pgrens come earlier and are vetted most likely when rifles and sections get upgrades, ostwind has been buffed in its ai role.

So again no the mg42 needs no buff what so ever imho.
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mrgame2
17 Sep 2019, 04:25 AM
#99
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It definitely needs a vet buff for survival, a tear down bonus on vet2.

In my game times, vetted allies infantry can outmatch a vetted mg42 much easier than what is said. I dont know if infantry got some suppression vet bonus or not, but 2 squads can walk to the edge of mg42 cone and start bleeding mg42 models. Probably yellow suppress 1~2 models, but the other 3~4 models continue bleed mg42 much easier

Its so called suppression is ineffective vet vs vet.
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Mr Carmine
17 Sep 2019, 05:25 AM
#100
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Its "lower" survivability is what keeps it balanced.

The squad gets supressed, not some models in it. Inf get rec acc with vet. That is what probably let supression kick in later.

If the enemy spreads his squads out over the entire arc. He should be able to beat/force off an mg esp an unsupported one.
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