For abilities such as the Reigel AT mine, that require a specific unit not built all the time, I think the balance team has had success bundling these commander abilities. Ex: rifleman moltovs AND rifle grenades, Veteran squads applies to pios, Grens and Pgrens. Mp40s and Flamers in Fuersturm ect.
Adding an additional ability to the reigel slot might help to give it more utility for when you just don't feel getting a halftrack is the right call.
Changes to Wehrmacht's Storm commander
5 Sep 2019, 19:58 PM
#21
Posts: 818
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5 Sep 2019, 21:59 PM
#22
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedStorm is my fav doctrine. It's a great doctrine for high level play. The reigel is kinda problematic since u need a HT. Agrens would be a perfect replacement but I have a feeling that will be too good. Just allow pios to lay riegels
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
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6 Sep 2019, 01:05 AM
#23
Posts: 785
Allowing pios to lay riegels would be too good lol. 60 Munition light vehicle deletion and tank immobilization is the kind of thing that has to be locked behind a vehicle of its own IMO. Like if M20 M6 mines were deployable by REs.
6 Sep 2019, 02:02 AM
#24
Posts: 1954
For abilities such as the Reigel AT mine, that require a specific unit not built all the time, I think the balance team has had success bundling these commander abilities. Ex: rifleman moltovs AND rifle grenades, Veteran squads applies to pios, Grens and Pgrens. Mp40s and Flamers in Fuersturm ect.
Adding an additional ability to the reigel slot might help to give it more utility for when you just don't feel getting a halftrack is the right call.
Don't think it really needs additional abilities. It's really good as is. I use it or Jaeger Armor on most of my matches when playing OST. LEFH + smoke + Stuka by itself is a great combination.
6 Sep 2019, 05:19 AM
#25
Posts: 97
For abilities such as the Reigel AT mine, that require a specific unit not built all the time, I think the balance team has had success bundling these commander abilities. Ex: rifleman moltovs AND rifle grenades, Veteran squads applies to pios, Grens and Pgrens. Mp40s and Flamers in Fuersturm ect.
Adding an additional ability to the reigel slot might help to give it more utility for when you just don't feel getting a halftrack is the right call.
Your examples are all infantry-specific bundles. Given that the mines are limited to half-tracks, any new bundle would have to be oriented towards light vehicles. There are currently no other Ostheer commander abilities for light vehicles* so, it would have to be created from scratch. Plus, it would have to be something very good to make bundling it with the mines work.
It's probably better to just leave it as it is.
[* Except for the new Observation HT, which is a bit of a dud and may actually benefit from being bundled with the mines, IMO. I'm not advocating for it, just making an observation.]
6 Sep 2019, 11:15 AM
#26
Posts: 5279
Well, i never said the abilities would be bad. It just bothers me if abilities dont fit to the theme.
But if players want to safe the status quo in terms of abilities - and thats fine to me - can we at least rename the commander and change the description text accordingly?
No worries friend, I wasn't saying you were saying the abilities were bad, just pointing out how good they are in defense of not changing them.
I think a name change is the best direction. The whole commander has a very ambush theme with immobilization mines and camo and sprint but I got no names
#stalinwept
6 Sep 2019, 11:29 AM
#27
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
I think a name change is the best direction. The whole commander has a very ambush theme with immobilization mines and camo and sprint but I got no names
Maybe Defence in depth / Elastic defense doctrine would fit.
Definition from WIKI:
Defence in depth / Elastic defense is a military strategy that seeks to delay rather than prevent the advance of an attacker, buying time and causing additional casualties by yielding space.
6 Sep 2019, 15:37 PM
#28
Posts: 563
Making riegel deployable by 222 would also be decent addition.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
6 Sep 2019, 19:33 PM
#29
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Making riegel deployable by 222 would also be decent addition.
222 doesn't really need even more encouragement to build.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Sep 2019, 20:16 PM
#30
Posts: 789
222 doesn't really need even more encouragement to build.
What encouragement? It is incredibly fragile, meaning it can’t fight allied LVs. The AEC, stuart, AA half track, and T70 can all 1v2 it.
It takes a lot of manpower to fuel to build compared to allied LVs, meaning you have less squads to cap, and it ties up your already busy pioneers, meaning they also can’t cap
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
6 Sep 2019, 22:35 PM
#31
Posts: 5279
What encouragement? It is incredibly fragile, meaning it can’t fight allied LVs. The AEC, stuart, AA half track, and T70 can all 1v2 it.
It takes a lot of manpower to fuel to build compared to allied LVs, meaning you have less squads to cap, and it ties up your already busy pioneers, meaning they also can’t cap
is it because the 222 is significantly cheaper and comes much sooner than those perhaps? that would be my bet if i was a betting man.
any idea why the 222 eats the UC, clown car and wc51?
vehicles have windows. sorry that it cant duke it out with vehicles that come out after it.
stupid light tanks beating my armoured car... where is your balance lelic?!?!? where!?!?!?!?!?!
#stalinwept
7 Sep 2019, 00:01 AM
#32
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
One might have reason to built the 222 the point is that the riegel mine ability is a bit lackluster since it requires the 251 to be deployed.
8 Sep 2019, 03:51 AM
#33
Posts: 789
is it because the 222 is significantly cheaper and comes much sooner than those perhaps? that would be my bet if i was a betting man.
any idea why the 222 eats the UC, clown car and wc51?
vehicles have windows. sorry that it cant duke it out with vehicles that come out after it.
stupid light tanks beating my armoured car... where is your balance lelic?!?!? where!?!?!?!?!?!
The 222 isn’t that fast
-20fuel 420mp(start) + 150mp(med) 10fuel 80mp(IK) + 40 fuel 100mp (BP1) + 20 fuel 200mp(LMK) + 30 fuel 200mp(222) = 80 fuel and 310mp to get your first 222
2nd 222: 110fuel 510mp
-20fuel 400mp(start) + 10 fuel 250mp(Ambo) + 35 fuel 200mp(PCP) + 20 fuel 80mp(MUL) + 70 fuel 270mp(Stuart) -280mp(lieutenant) = 115fuel and 120mp to get your first Stuart
+15fuel 150mp for weapon racks = 130fuel 270mp
AA half track: 110 fuel 270mp
-20fuel 340mp(start) + 30 fuel 180mp(PCP) + 15 fuel 80?mp(Unlock) + 60fuel 280mp(AEC) = 105 fuel 200mp to get your first AEC
+ 35fuel 180mp for bolster = 140 fuel 380mp
-20fuel 390mp(start) + 10-20fuel 180mp + 90fuel 240mp + 70 fuel 270mp = 150 - 160fuel 300mp for your first t70
+ 40 fuel 250mp for Molotovs and AT nades/15fuel 190mp scout car = 200fuel 550mp (t2) / 165 fuel 490mp (t1)
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
8 Sep 2019, 04:04 AM
#34
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
snip
https://www.coh2.org/topic/96422/panzerfusiliers-need-adjustments/page/14#post_id770023
You should include for all 4 cases, what is reasonable to unlock in that time frame IMO.
All will unlock medics.
SU will probably either skip AT nade/molo in most builds or get one and in fringe case both of them.
USF will mostly surely get the ambulance. Optional weapon or nade unlock before Stuart.
UKF is most likely to get Bolster.
222 is less common nowadays when you can stall towards the Ostwind and actually kill all lights and have a reliable AI vehicle.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
8 Sep 2019, 06:14 AM
#35
Posts: 789
https://www.coh2.org/topic/96422/panzerfusiliers-need-adjustments/page/14#post_id770023
You should include for all 4 cases, what is reasonable to unlock in that time frame IMO.
All will unlock medics.
SU will probably either skip AT nade/molo in most builds or get one and in fringe case both of them.
USF will mostly surely get the ambulance. Optional weapon or nade unlock before Stuart.
UKF is most likely to get Bolster.
222 is less common nowadays when you can stall towards the Ostwind and actually kill all lights and have a reliable AI vehicle.
So everyone but OKW starts with 20 fuel?
I did include the fuel cost of ambulance, but I didn’t include mp, so I’ll do that
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
8 Sep 2019, 07:01 AM
#36
Posts: 810
No need to be change
8 Sep 2019, 16:07 PM
#37
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedAllowing pios to lay riegels would be too good lol. 60 Munition light vehicle deletion and tank immobilization is the kind of thing that has to be locked behind a vehicle of its own IMO. Like if M20 M6 mines were deployable by REs.
You're saying that a doctrinal ability that takes up a full slot is too good because it's slightly better than a non-doc vehicle ability?
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
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8 Sep 2019, 16:15 PM
#38
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You're saying that a doctrinal ability that takes up a full slot is too good because it's slightly better than a non-doc vehicle ability?
If you think an ability to completely immobilize vehicle and inflict massive damage to it is "slightly" better then ability to damage and allow it to retreat, then you're really hopeless.
Immobilized vehicle is dead vehicle.
You can very often crawl back from engine damage alone.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Sep 2019, 16:18 PM
#39
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
If you think an ability to completely immobilize vehicle and inflict massive damage to it is "slightly" better then ability to damage and allow it to retreat, then you're really hopeless.
Immobilized vehicle is dead vehicle.
You can very often crawl back from engine damage alone.
Dude, I'm comparing the riegel to the m20 mine. They're the same except the riegel takes a full doc slot. So to give riegels to pios (to make riegels slightly better than the m20 mines, due to better access) is not a crazy idea as the allied fanboy was suggesting.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
8 Sep 2019, 17:49 PM
#40
Posts: 5279
Dude, I'm comparing the riegel to the m20 mine. They're the same except the riegel takes a full doc slot. So to give riegels to pios (to make riegels slightly better than the m20 mines, due to better access) is not a crazy idea as the allied fanboy was suggesting.
Heavy tanks take up a whole slot but okw gets one without
Rocket art takes up a whole slot for usf and UKF but not for Soviet Ost or okw
Flares take a slot on usf bu comes bundled with infantry for OKW and on a couple of stock units for soviet
Booby trap point takes a slot on Soviet but okw have it on Obers without a slot.
Tank traps take a slot for Soviet but are bundled for Ost and okw but stock for usf
UKF and USF need doctrines for a half track but Ost and soviet have one stock
Doctrines bring new things to the faction. If it's not worth a slot (which immobilization mines totally are) then it needs buffed so it does but another faction having it without a doctrine doesn't mean shit....
#stalinwept
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