Login

russian armor

USF Sherman 76 mm - Who needs it?

4 Sep 2019, 13:21 PM
#81
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



Just said the p4 is OK as you mentioned it doesn't shine in anything. If I want AI I'll buy a ostwind and if I want AT I'll take a stug. See the difference between the T34-76 and T34-85 and even with the SU-85. The 85 has a specific place in Soviet roaster which is failing for the p4.

:snfPeter:

p4 is OK for its price, but far for "really really good."

:snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter::snfPeter:

the grass of the neighbor is always greener:romeoHairDay:


What don't you understand in "The EZ8 is ok for its price" sentence.
4 Sep 2019, 14:14 PM
#82
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 13:12 PMLago


No, they're not bad. I'm perhaps being unduly harsh on Rifle Company.

But look at the competition. Revamped Armor Company. Heavy Cavalry Company. Mechanized Everything Company.

USF's commanders could really do with an ability reshuffle.

Imo the revamped USF commander are overbuffed with a large number of bundled abilities.
4 Sep 2019, 15:48 PM
#83
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

As always, axis fans juggle text and start to panic. Why are you so afraid of such discussions? I did not say that E8 should defeat Panther. Please quote these words, if you do not provide them, you are considered liars.

The E8 discussion began with one of your friends saying, “E8 has a superior AT gun.” This is the funniest thing I've heard. Superior gun - which cannot normally penetrate the panther, especially when there is a vet 1.



jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 06:14 AMRiley


Did I really want the E8 to defeat the Panther? Where did I say that? I said that it does not have a “superior gun”, and that E8 needs more penetration. Even if the E8 has a penetration, like Jackson, it will not defeat the Panther. Because the Panther has more armor and health. And this is logical. After all, the E8 is a doctrinal tank, it can have a little better gun.


Your argument with Panzer J is not appropriate, because you do not take into account the opposition. I am writing it again.

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 00:55 AMRiley


2. But you did not mention the opposition of these tanks.

E8 vs Panzer 4, Panther, King Tiger. (Doctrine: Tiger, Tiger Ace, JagdTiger, Ferdinand)

Panzer 4 vs sherman 75mm and Jackson (Doctrine: Sherman 76 mm and Pershing)

We see that for E8 the opposition is much stronger. Even if the OKW does not choose a doctrine, it has a panther and KT.



- Therefore, given the opposition, the E8 should have a slightly better penetration, so as not to become quite easy prey for the Panther, especially with enhanced armor.

- Sherman 76 mm is not needed at all.
4 Sep 2019, 15:55 PM
#84
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 15:48 PMRiley
The E8 discussion began with one of your friends saying, “E8 has a superior AT gun.” This is the funniest thing I've heard. Superior gun - which cannot normally penetrate the panther, especially when there is a vet 1.


The Easy Eight has a 60% to 77% chance to penetrate a Panther's frontal armour.

This drops by about 6% when the Panther gets skirts.
4 Sep 2019, 15:55 PM
#85
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

i love riely, usf has to fight both OKW and OST , while OST has only to fight USF, like UKF and SU don't exist :snfPeter:

as always the poor USF all alone

btw i see u back paddled on ur argument that ost doctrinal tank should be worse than usf doctrinal tank :snfPeter:

btw ur logic on pen is fucking stupid

"since unit X pays more fuel for more armor, unit Y should get extra penetration for FREE since it has stars on the tank" :hansUSA::hansUSA::snfPeter::snfPeter:
4 Sep 2019, 16:09 PM
#86
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

i love riely, usf has to fight both OKW and OST , while OST has only to fight USF, like UKF and SU don't exist :snfPeter:

as always the poor USF all alone

btw i see u back paddled on ur argument that ost doctrinal tank should be worse than usf doctrinal tank :snfPeter:


If I play 1x1, what's the point of discussing other allied factions? After all, we are talking about changing exactly E8, and do not touch the balance between OKW / Oster and the British / Soviet. Only USF. And we do not say that they are poor, just a Sherman 76 mm is not worthy to be in a mechanized company, and the E8 could get a little more penetration.

But if we are talking about the 2x2 mode, then everyone already knows this, the USF is the worst fraction, which is confirmed by the terrible results in tournaments.

My favorite iron argument, which is very unpleasant to you.:) But the result is the result; you cannot dispute this or say the popular L2P. Because top players play there. And Reliс specially holds tournaments for this.

4 Sep 2019, 16:13 PM
#87
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 16:09 PMRiley


If I play 1x1, what's the point of discussing other allied factions? After all, we are talking about changing exactly E8, and do not touch the balance between OKW / Oster and the British / Soviet. Only USF. And we do not say that they are poor, just a Sherman 76 mm is not worthy to be in a mechanized company, and the E8 could get a little more penetration.

But if we are talking about the 2x2 mode, then everyone already knows this, the USF is the worst fraction, which is confirmed by the terrible results in tournaments.


jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 00:55 AMRiley


1. lol. Do you compare E8 with panzer 4? Doctrine tanks? are you serious? :lol:

2. But you did not mention the opposition of these tanks.

E8 vs Panzer 4, Panther, King Tiger. (Doctrine: Tiger, Tiger Ace, JagdTiger, Ferdinand)

Panzer 4 vs sherman 75mm and Jackson (Doctrine: Sherman 76 mm and Pershing)

We see that for E8 the opposition is much stronger. Even if the OKW does not choose a doctrine, it has a panther and KT.
cognitive dissonance is a hell of drug

and again

"since unit X pays more fuel for more armor, unit Y should get extra penetration for FREE since it has stars on the tank" :hansUSA::hansUSA::snfPeter::snfPeter:
4 Sep 2019, 16:15 PM
#88
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268


cognitive dissonance is a hell of drug


a weak mind is a more destructive drug.

USF vs OKW/OST in 1vs1.

What problems? And where does the other allied fractions? If we are talking about 1x1, and do not make changes in OKW and Oster. Can't you think before you write? :loco:
4 Sep 2019, 16:16 PM
#89
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 16:15 PMRiley


a weak mind is a more destructive drug.

USF vs OKW/OST in 1vs1.

What problems? And where does the other allied fractions? If we are talking about 1x1, and do not make changes in OKW and Oster. Can't you think before you write? :loco:


so there is no okw vs UKF/su 1vs1

or ost vs ukf/su 1vs 1 ?

do u actually own other faction other than usf ?
4 Sep 2019, 16:18 PM
#90
avatar of Riley

Posts: 268

Someone explain to this nice person elementary logic.
4 Sep 2019, 16:29 PM
#91
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



Didn't Raketen has the exactly penetration as Zis?

M1 57mm has horrible penetration.


IIRC Rak has the same pen at 50 range as the Zis at 60. This means at 50 range the Zis has more pen.
4 Sep 2019, 16:46 PM
#93
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2019, 15:48 PMRiley
The E8 discussion began with one of your friends saying, “E8 has a superior AT gun.” This is the funniest thing I've heard. Superior gun - which cannot normally penetrate the panther, especially when there is a vet 1.


Why are you basing the idea of what a superior gun is on if it can penetrate the panthers armour? Not to mention that there is more than one axis tank, you probably might want to consider Rof, AOE, scatter, accuracy and moving accuracy.

Its like arguing against the pumas gun because it cant always pen an is2.
4 Sep 2019, 16:53 PM
#94
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I hear a lot of people assuming USF tanks are lackluster, what they dont say is when and why.
USF tanks are meant to be part of a group of units, they are not designed to 1v1 solo axis tanks, thats why shermans are cost effective. The downside of this design is that raises the ceiling of skill and micro tax of all USF commanders.

Currently the micro tax for USF players sets up a skill gap, not all players are able to overcome it and use a small fraction on the units true potential, therefore their feelings about them are what we see each day in the forums. In other words, USF is one of the most skill demanding factions, this makes each single unit lackluster compared to axis counterparts.

Before anyone tries to spit my argument, axis skill gap is based on solid decision making and unit preservation. Going further here is offtopic.

Be all Trigger warned*


4 Sep 2019, 16:57 PM
#95
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Dis, saying that USF tanks requires more micro is actually false, better moving accuracy and scatter means u don’t need to stop and shoot like all other tanks
4 Sep 2019, 16:58 PM
#96
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Got it, i stand corrected then
4 Sep 2019, 17:08 PM
#97
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

Lord knows pressing the stop button is hard. 6 second freeze of switching rounds or the entire vehicle stopping to pop a delayed smoke has got nothing on the amount of timing and technical skill required to use Blitz or Panzer Tactician lmao

And this thread is pretty pointless now that I basically proved the 76mm is better than the M4A3E8 in basically every situation, E8 having the longest reload time of any medium tank and inferior accuracy and penetration to the 76MM HVAP.
4 Sep 2019, 17:10 PM
#98
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

In topic, personally speaking I would prefer if normal Sherman got an upgrade that cost 100 mo and 10 f that replaced either normal or heat shoot for armor piercing of the 76 mm
4 Sep 2019, 17:13 PM
#99
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Lord knows pressing the stop button is hard. 6 second freeze of switching rounds or the entire vehicle stopping to pop a delayed smoke has got nothing on the amount of timing and technical skill required to use Blitz or Panzer Tactician lmao

That’s why I said compared to other tanks, the extra ability u listed are extra , those do require extra micro but are not needed to make them equal to other ,
They are not micro tax but micro bonus they add to the unit but are not needed to make it perform same as other
4 Sep 2019, 17:21 PM
#100
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785


That’s why I said compared to other tanks, the extra ability u listed are extra , those do require extra micro but are not needed to make them equal to other


Why would you build a unit and then not use any of the abilities? Like, it may be doable with a Panzer IV that constantly uses an AI/AT round, but a M4 Sherman without smoke or HE rounds is basically pointless. The abilities are integral to the unit. The utility factor.


And the 76MM doesnt need any messing with or replacement upgrades to the Sherman. I think it's fine as is, and honestly looking at the stats I wouldnt be surprised if it gets a nerf to its AP ROF, which is better than any other medium tank.
3 users are browsing this thread: 3 guests

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

523 users are online: 523 guests
0 post in the last 24h
12 posts in the last week
24 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49887
Welcome our newest member, Hrabal35
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM