Panzerfusiliers Need Adjustments

Idk
Say conscripts, what does unlocking a snare cost?

I dont think be believes side-techs exist, but good luck

Idk
Say conscripts, what does unlocking a snare cost?

what is the cost of sand bags and orrah upgrade ?

what is the cost of sand bags and orrah upgrade ?

Being the worst mainline infantry in the game.

Being the worst mainline infantry in the game.

they are so bad they beat fusi

allied fan boy :"cons are the worst main line infatry"
>cons proceds to beat pfusi
allied fan boy :"pfusi are a perfectly balanced unit"

I'd raise their rifle damage to 12, nerf their near accuracy and cooldown, and then call it a day. The game treats them as light infantry, which isn't really historically accurate at all, but all the more reason not to give them sandbags.

I'd wonder about making them start at 6-man and lowering their reinforce a bit, but as it is now their upgrades are too good for that; 6-man shrek squad sounds nasty. I'd wonder about giving them more G43s for the upgrade but only if the BS G43 move accuracy gets thrown out.

i did test and as u can see mid and close range are won by cons and long range is barely won by pfusi they may have less far dps but 1 more man means 80 more hp and another rifle

cause that's the reason why people wanted to nerf volks and buff rifle, this is the same situation but roles are reversed, guess what people say it's fine cause star>cross

EDIT: Something's wrong with the Riflemen data below, Con should still be fine.

Okay, so I did some testing:
PF vs Cons, all tested in at least triplicates if not stated otherwise, vet 0, no cover
range 0-10: Cons win clearly (usually 30% health left)
range 20: Cons win reliably (they won all fights, but one barely and the rest much closer)
range 30: Cons won 1/6 fights, PF won 2 reliably, 3 clearly. This happened even though I allowed Cons to model snipe PF by bad PF positioning in the first three runs

Now, judging from the sole AI power, PF are not worth it early game. Nevertheless, investment wise they are alright. Although Axis usually need the AT nade earlier, Cons would need to pay 125 MP (which is 30-40 MP per squad plus a bit of fuel), get molotov per side tech instead of up teching (20-30 MP plus fuel). For the sake of completeness, other factors are: Ourah vs vet passive sprint, flare trap vs flare shot, sandbag building for Cons, weapon upgrades for PF.

To test the late game fighting power I chose Riflemen as the opponent, as both units fit the role of mobile assault troops.
Testing 6 men PF with G43 vs double BAR Rifles, vet 0, no cover, triplicates:
range 0: PF wrickedy wreck Riflemen it's almost not funny.
range 20: PF win clearly to reliably
range 30: Riflemen win reliably.

For the sake of completeness: Riflemen double BARs cost more than G43, come later and need side tech. Rifle have different vetting, vet based AT nade, normal nade needs side tech. Rifles also cost more to reinforce and have no flare, but sandbags in doctrinal cases.



So all in all, OKW hampers itself early game by going PF. On the other hand they get the strongest starter unit of the game and can slowly start upgrading the PFs from ~min 5. Then PF turn into real beasts and are probably the most cost effective infantry unit in the game.

Okay, so I did some testing:
PF vs Cons, all tested in at least triplicates if not stated otherwise, vet 0, no cover
range 0-10: Cons win clearly (usually 30% health left)
range 20: Cons win reliably (they won all fights, but one barely and the rest much closer)
range 30: Cons won 1/6 fights, PF won 2 reliably, 3 clearly. This happened even though I allowed Cons to model snipe PF by bad PF positioning in the first three runs

Now, judging from the sole AI power, PF are not worth it early game. Nevertheless, investment wise they are alright. Although Axis usually need the AT nade earlier, Cons would need to pay 125 MP (which is 30-40 MP per squad plus a bit of fuel), get molotov per side tech instead of up teching (20-30 MP plus fuel). For the sake of completeness, other factors are: Ourah vs vet passive sprint, flare trap vs flare shot, sandbag building for Cons, weapon upgrades for PF.

To test the late game fighting power I chose Riflemen as the opponent, as both units fit the role of mobile assault troops.
Testing 6 men PF with G43 vs double BAR Rifles, vet 0, no cover, triplicates:
range 0: PF wrickedy wreck Riflemen it's almost not funny.
range 20: PF win clearly to reliably
range 30: Riflemen win reliably.

For the sake of completeness: Riflemen double BARs cost more than G43, come later and need side tech. Rifle have different vetting, vet based AT nade, normal nade needs side tech. Rifles also cost more to reinforce and have no flare, but sandbags in doctrinal cases.



So all in all, OKW hampers itself early game by going PF. On the other hand they get the strongest starter unit of the game and can slowly start upgrading the PFs from ~min 5. Then PF turn into real beasts and are probably the most cost effective infantry unit in the game.

i tested my self at vet 3 vs 5 and they lost close range (have not tried mid)



and even by the dps chart bars at close range shows that rifle at vet 0 will do 44,1 damage with 2 bars and pfusi with upgrade will do 38, 4 , u sure u didn't do it with only 1 bar ?

edit: tested just now

i didn't see the wicked fun u were talking about, again u sure u put 2 bar ? or did u confuse the lmg with the bar?

I'd raise their rifle damage to 12, nerf their near accuracy and cooldown, and then call it a day. The game treats them as light infantry, which isn't really historically accurate at all, but all the more reason not to give them sandbags.

I'd wonder about making them start at 6-man and lowering their reinforce a bit, but as it is now their upgrades are too good for that; 6-man shrek squad sounds nasty. I'd wonder about giving them more G43s for the upgrade but only if the BS G43 move accuracy gets thrown out.

in my opinion we can :

1 decarease the base price to 260

2 copy paste stv to them

3 increase the long range dps only

4 increase price to 300 and give them gren rifle

in my opinion we can :

1 decarease the base price to 260

2 copy paste stv to them

3 increase the long range dps only

4 increase price to 300 and give them gren rifle

Either ways seem acceptable.
Way 1 : Volks replacement
Way 2 : OKW penals
Way 3 : Again acceptable volks replacement
Way 4 : Penal competitors

i tested my self at vet 3 vs 5 and they lost close range (have not tried mid)



and even by the dps chart bars at close range shows that rifle at vet 0 will do 44,1 damage with 2 bars and pfusi with upgrade will do 38, 4 , u sure u didn't do it with only 1 bar ?

Maybe, can't say for sure.
Redid the range 0 test with 6 fights, outcome was 50/50, all very close except for one Riflemen squad who survived with 2 models and a bit more health than the usual "pixel" of all other fights (but also not much).

Might redo the ranged ones if I find the time.

another test if want

Nah, I'm pretty sure I must have done something wrong.

Maybe, can't say for sure.
Redid the range 0 test with 6 fights, outcome was 50/50, all very close except for one Riflemen squad who survived with 2 models and a bit more health than the usual "pixel" of all other fights (but also not much).

Might redo the ranged ones if I find the time.

i think there is no need to, the g43 dps is the same at long range as the base rifle, while bar double the dps at long range they should win reliably there (11,58 dps pfusi upgraded squad vs 13 of the double bar rifle)

now to close the argument without sky to cherry pick

as shown by test and dps chart, fusilier have the same performance as gren (as a whole squad not x model) but have more durability vs explosive (until vet 3) thanks to the 5th men, both have at nade too

the vet of fusilier is comparable to other mainlines and same as penals

the upgrades they have are in the middle (worse than 2 bar better than just 3 g43), and fairly priced (the 5th men upgrade for green cost 60 mun and it comes with RA and 1 g43, for 30 more munition u get 2 more g43, makes sense as 1 g43 cost 15 mun)

the 280 mp cost is not worth their current performance

btw this is an even worse match up than volks vs rifle as : they are doctrinal, the enemy unit has good vet (unlike volks), the enemy units upgrades are priced ok (unlike volks stg which are worse than bar) and the maximum potential is not as high (like double bar rifle)

now to close the argument without sky to cherry pick

Cherry pick what exactly?

You are the one who compares fusiliers to rifleman while ignoring side-techs

You say im ignoring the fact they cost the same but dont perform the same? They only cost the same when you choose to pretend side-techs dont exist

Thats the only cherrypicking going on here. Stop dragging my name thru the mud because you dont like me

I dont like you either, at least im trying to move on

I compared them to gren tho as u asked , no rifle , no volks no cons

I didn't ask you to compare them to anything

The gren comparison doesnt show us anything, idk what you were trying to accomplish with it

I didn't ask you to compare them to anything

The gren comparison doesnt show us anything, the 2 units are not much alike

then u are delusional , they do similar dps and similar durability similar curve , similar upgrades and scaling + the at nades u asked so much

what is the cost of sand bags and orrah upgrade ?

That pint went right over your head didn't it? It wasn't a "cons have it bad" it was "we literally know exact how much a snare costs on t0 infantry because we literally have a reference point"

But to answer your question, with the exception of Tommies sandbags cost long term combat power OR slot in a doctrine and oorah costs approximately exactly 2x the price of sprint.

then u are delusional they do similar dps and similar durability similar curve , similar upgrades and scaling + the at nades u asked so much

Grens can turn into a double shreck squad? Grens can become 6 men with bonus vision? Fussies can upgrade to lmg?

They really aren't that similar, and again, what are you even trying to show? There's no point to this

When you stop pretending side-techs dont exist, you can start talking about delusions