Front Armor of the churchill is not that thick compare to other heavy, only rear armor and HP is stand out but it is a part of slow - damage sponge at grenade range design.
I think the durability of the churchill shouldn't be touched but at the same time torn down it's AT capable will work. With lower pen, churchill will not going to stand alone again heavier tank but with proper AT support, it still can fulfill it role as damage sponge and anti infantry - infantry support tank.
UKF September patch discussion
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25 Aug 2019, 10:17 AM
#101
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
25 Aug 2019, 10:21 AM
#102
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Furthermore, i'm thinking of some upgrade like "close support tank" for the churchill, give it HE shell with Sherman's HE profile. Basically turn the churchill into an anti infantry specialist but no longer a threat to armor.
25 Aug 2019, 10:24 AM
#103
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Historically, Churchill "close support" is fitted with 94mm howitzer to fire mainly HE and smoke shell.
25 Aug 2019, 10:26 AM
#104
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Add a limit of 2 to the Churchill, add a limit of 2 to the Panther.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
25 Aug 2019, 10:41 AM
#105
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Add a limit of 2 to the Churchill, add a limit of 2 to the Panther.
Problem solved.
While i'm totally fine with this, i'm not sure how panther spammers will react, LOL. Still, add a fix limit to everything is not a solution.
25 Aug 2019, 10:48 AM
#106
Posts: 4474
if they make the panther as efficient as the Churchill ok
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
25 Aug 2019, 11:07 AM
#107
Posts: 556
The absurd amount of tankyness or its decent penetration needs to go down. There is actually no real counter to churchill spam. Why ? Lets have a look.
>ATG spam -> Gets 2 shotted
>Panzergren/Panzerfusi x2 schreck spam -> Churchill is here to counter infantry so this doesn't work either
>Panther spam -> Probably the best option but still too costly and ineffective
>Heavies -> Goodluck with your limited to 1 Tiger Ace trying to be the hero
>ATG spam -> Gets 2 shotted
>Panzergren/Panzerfusi x2 schreck spam -> Churchill is here to counter infantry so this doesn't work either
>Panther spam -> Probably the best option but still too costly and ineffective
>Heavies -> Goodluck with your limited to 1 Tiger Ace trying to be the hero
Grens are finally good.
25 Aug 2019, 11:24 AM
#108
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
The absurd amount of tankyness or its decent penetration needs to go down. There is actually no real counter to churchill spam. Why ? Lets have a look.
>ATG spam -> Gets 2 shotted
>Panzergren/Panzerfusi x2 schreck spam -> Churchill is here to counter infantry so this doesn't work either
>Panther spam -> Probably the best option but still too costly and ineffective
>Heavies -> Goodluck with your limited to 1 Tiger Ace trying to be the hero
Seem like L2P issue to me since you dont know what is the meaning of "combine arms".
Spam only 1 unit and expect it to work? I dont think so. Event churchill cant wotk without at least proper AT support.
25 Aug 2019, 11:26 AM
#109
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
By the way, with that logic, there is actually no real counter for panther spam :v
25 Aug 2019, 11:49 AM
#110
Posts: 4474
that's the point, spamming Churchill works as shown in the last game
Seem like L2P issue to me since you dont know what is the meaning of "combine arms".
Spam only 1 unit and expect it to work? I dont think so. Event churchill cant wotk without at least proper AT support.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
25 Aug 2019, 12:00 PM
#111
Posts: 556
By the way, with that logic, there is actually no real counter for panther spam :v
The thing is panther spam is vulnerable to infantry spam churchill spam isn't. And also I know what combined arms is. Was jsut giving examples. Watch the first "Balance Matches" from tightropes channel. OST is just doomed by the churchill spam even with his x2 panzergrens x2 P4s x1 stug (and x1 atg if i remember corretly). I know you like the Brits but churchill is absurd in its current state and it is the reason why comet is not used.
Grens are finally good.
25 Aug 2019, 12:02 PM
#112
Posts: 4474
By the way, with that logic, there is actually no real counter for panther spam :vthere is at guns or AT infantry, panther will lose to 2 RE with piats in no cover, imagine in yellow cover
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
25 Aug 2019, 12:32 PM
#113
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
And i'm proposing decrease churchill's AT capable so it can no longer be spam as you can see.
At the same time, by anyway, takings away churchill's durability will prevent it from doing the only jod it good at, the job that it's designed for and i'm strongly against that.
Please take a look at my ideas above.
At the same time, by anyway, takings away churchill's durability will prevent it from doing the only jod it good at, the job that it's designed for and i'm strongly against that.
Please take a look at my ideas above.
25 Aug 2019, 12:59 PM
#114
Posts: 4474
just reduce the pen to 80 it has already good ai
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
25 Aug 2019, 13:11 PM
#115
Posts: 556
And i'm proposing decrease churchill's AT capable so it can no longer be spam as you can see.
At the same time, by anyway, takings away churchill's durability will prevent it from doing the only jod it good at, the job that it's designed for and i'm strongly against that.
Please take a look at my ideas above.
Agreed or as another way make it a potent Tiger like tank but limit it to 1.
Grens are finally good.
25 Aug 2019, 14:50 PM
#116
Posts: 5279
I maintain that if comet and Churchill were limited to 1 and balanced according the UKF would be all the better for it. And before some goes "BUT PANTHERS!" fuck off. We're talking about ukf and can address panthers when we get there
#stalinwept
25 Aug 2019, 15:37 PM
#117
Posts: 1794
Churchill needs more nerfs. Just came back from watching the Banace preview tournament and that Churchill spam was so OP
Right now it can hold off a panther, while costing less fuel and being able to beat up infantry
I would suggest reducing the main gun’s AOE damage so that it can continue to fight panthers on even terms, but can’t slaugher infantry afterwards.
Wehr late game just suck and dont scale well. 1 Elefant cant stop Churchill spam.
Wehr doesnt get P47 or Armor overwatch and that UKF one. Their stuka air strike is less damaging.
Bascially Panther should at least put a good fight against Churchill. But it doesnt
Simply now AT Gun or TD zone out Panthers for Churchill push.
Makes no sense Churchill can hit Panther for same 160 damage due to Panther poor rear armor. If you watch the KV1 hull down vs Panther. 100 pen vs 260 armor, and it was ugly for Panther. Showing some stats are better than others.
Range > Armor.
USF,UKF,Sov have strong TD vet bonus.
Panther gets inconseqential armor skirts at current values.
Like i said, rebalance Panther armor so that it decrease rear armor pen from non-TD non-premium med at max range. Give Panther a moving accuracy vet.
25 Aug 2019, 16:02 PM
#118
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Wehr late game just suck and dont scale well. 1 Elefant cant stop Churchill spam.
Wehr doesnt get P47 or Armor overwatch and that UKF one. Their stuka air strike is less damaging.
Bascially Panther should at least put a good fight against Churchill. But it doesnt
Simply now AT Gun or TD zone out Panthers for Churchill push.
Makes no sense Churchill can hit Panther for same 160 damage due to Panther poor rear armor. If you watch the KV1 hull down vs Panther. 100 pen vs 260 armor, and it was ugly for Panther. Showing some stats are better than others.
Range > Armor.
USF,UKF,Sov have strong TD vet bonus.
Panther gets inconseqential armor skirts at current values.
Like i said, rebalance Panther armor so that it decrease rear armor pen from non-TD non-premium med at max range. Give Panther a moving accuracy vet.
Now, this is the UKF thread, since there are not many people who actually care about the faction, please crying about panther un others thread.
25 Aug 2019, 17:42 PM
#119
Posts: 72
Makes no sense Churchill can hit Panther for same 160 damage due to Panther poor rear armor. If you watch the KV1 hull down vs Panther. 100 pen vs 260 armor, and it was ugly for Panther. Showing some stats are better than others.
I love it when wehraboos cling to the total RNG that was Tightrope's Hulldown KV-1 showcase as 'evidence' of Panther being 'weak'. If you even park the panther in front of the KV like that you deserve to lose it.
More on-topic, I'd also favor a nerf to AT performance.
25 Aug 2019, 19:31 PM
#120
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I maintain that if comet and Churchill were limited to 1 and balanced according the UKF would be all the better for it. And before some goes "BUT PANTHERS!" fuck off. We're talking about ukf and can address panthers when we get there
+1
Comet been closer to Pershing and leaving the Churchill as is.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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