OKW September patch discussion

Camo? You won't lose if you ambush either of those squads

I'd agree if they got commando camo from vet 0. Currently they get the crappy pathfinder camo where you can't move till vet 2.

I'd agree if they got commando camo from vet 0. Currently they get the crappy pathfinder camo where you can't move till vet 2.

Fair, but you asked vs obers. Obers have zero camo but same grenade. You don't need to move to get nasty ambush hits with that grenade

Camo + faust can be a nice trick too

2 Gren G43's + 2 FG42's for Falls before the second FG42 package sounds like a great idea!

AND WILL SOMEONE RAISE THE PRICE OF VALIANT ASSAULT FROM 70 MUNITONS

>For Mother Russia
>Assault & Hold
>UKF's Assault

They're all 70 munitions, with For Mother Russia being the strongest by far, Valiant Assault second strongest.

>For Mother Russia
>Assault & Hold
>UKF's Assault

They're all 70 munitions, with For Mother Russia being the strongest by far, Valiant Assault second strongest.

That may be, but a 70 munition "I click, time to A-move and win" button isn't exactly the pinacle of good design.

That may be, but a 70 munition "I click, time to A-move and win" button isn't exactly the pinacle of good design.

They should remove the sprint from all those abilities IMO, so opponent has the possibility to move away from A-move blobs.

I think strong infantry buffs are not a big problem if they're on infantry-focused doctrines.

They're all 70 munitions, with For Mother Russia being the strongest by far, Valiant Assault second strongest.

Weren't these two patched to become the exact same? They've been changed a couple times, i thought the final one made them perfect copies

I mean that's great and all, but what's the point of being "jack of all trades, master of none" if you can't fight off shock troopers or LMG paratroopers? You lose at long and short? Where's the incentive over obers?

Ambush squads pick their engagements. Don't pick up a fight with squads that have advantage over you?

You will win vs paras at short range, you will win vs shocks at long range.
If you can't win a fight with infiltration units, you've engaged wrong squad at wrong distance.

Its a lesson you learn extremely quickly after a couple of games with partisans.

If you want mainline squad, you have obers.

Falls are not replacement or alternative to obers, they are a squad with very specific use and utilities supporting that role.

Weren't these two patched to become the exact same? They've been changed a couple times, i thought the final one made them perfect copies

For Mother Russia = 50% accuracy + sprint + buffs team weapons aswell
Valiant Assault = 25% accuracy + sprint
UKF's assault = recon overflight + 15% accuracy + 25% faster movement speed for infantry
Assault & Hold = 25% accuracy + 100% cap/decap rate

For Mother Russia = 50% accuracy + sprint + also buffs team weapons
Valiant Assault = 25% accuracy + sprint
UKF's assault = recon overflight + 15% accuracy + sprint
Assault & Hold = 25% accuracy + 100% cap/decap rate

Thank you, i couldn't find it the changelog. Might not have gone back far enough

And they can upgrade to weapons that are good at ALL ranges, as opposed to specializing in one that's good at 1 range

Are you implying that the 1919 is only good at one range? It has higher DPS than the FG42 at ranges > 15. Its lower short range DPS might be an issue if Paratroopers Carbines didn't do a tonne of damage at close range.

Ambush squads pick their engagements. Don't pick up a fight with squads that have advantage over you?

You will win vs paras at short range, you will win vs shocks at long range.
If you can't win a fight with infiltration units, you've engaged wrong squad at wrong distance.

Falls are not replacement or alternative to obers, they are a squad with very specific use and utilities supporting that role.

Falls will not win against Shocks at long range because as we've already gone over, Shocks can literally just move against Falls over open ground and win despite Falls supposed being a great all range squad.

An elite ambush squad with a munitions investment should not lose so many matchups out of cover simply because of their status as an ambush squad, especially considering how they were just changed to make them less impactful in the early game but more impactful in the late game and yet still fail to have good impact in either.

Also the fact that the balance team extended the Mid range of Falls and buffed the FG42's long range performance indicates to me that there is an expectation that Falls will and should be engaging normally and not always from an ambush. This goes against their utility as an ambush squad as does the fact that they now spawn with Kar98ks instead of mp40s or G43s. There is absolutely no reason why a very specifically ambush centered squad should be spawning with bolt actions.

Imagine not knowing what A-moving means, must be the king of micro then.

Falls will not win against Shocks at long range because as we've already gone over, Shocks can literally just a-move against Falls over open ground and win despite Falls supposed being a great all range squad.

An elite ambush squad with a munitions investment should not lose so many matchups out of cover simply because of their status as an ambush squad, especially considering how they were just changed to make them less impactful in the early game but more impactful in the late game and yet still fail to have good impact in either.

Also the fact that the balance team extended the Mid range of Falls and buffed the FG42's long range performance indicates to me that there is an expectation that Falls will and should be engaging normally and not always from an ambush. This goes against their utility as an ambush squad as does the fact that they now spawn with Kar98ks instead of mp40s or G43s. There is absolutely no reason why a very specifically ambush centered squad should be spawning with bolt actions.

if shocks cant close from long range, how are they suppose to win engagements? they dont have camo like other squads and therefore, cant ambush thats why ther quite durable to be able to close from long and its not just against falls they can do this.

Falls with the new changes, just need some RA improvements and i think they'll be fine.

Are you implying that the 1919 is only good at one range? It has higher DPS than the FG42 at ranges > 15. Its lower short range DPS might be an issue if Paratroopers Carbines didn't do a tonne of damage at close range.

Nope

Its AI needs to be reliable, not better, it needs to be a viable alternative, not the go-to thing in every single game and match up.

The KT can't be a "go-to thing in every single game" because of it's very high price and teching requirements. Many games don't even last long enough for the KT to arrive.

What exactly is it that is supposed to make the KT a viable alternative? It's not it's AI because the P4 and Ostwind are better, it's not it's AT because the Jagdtiger and Panther are better, so surely it must be it's status as a generalist but what's the point of an expensive generalist if it doesn't even outperform the medium generalist at AI?

It's AT can't be improved because it's already very good and it's speed keeps it from securing it's own kills especially now that blitz was moved to vet 3 so it needs better AI to be a generalist worth it's cost.

Right now the KT is a slow veterancy sponge that can push away armor but not kill it because speed and only has regular level AI, it's simply not worth the risk of saving up for it especially since it can be flanked so easily because of it's incredibly slow turret rotation and has extreme difficulty escaping. I appreciate that they lowered Spearhead to Vet 1 because the suppression is great but it either needs better AI to perform better as a generalist or it needs a bit better turret rotation or speed to keep it from being flanked as easily.

if shocks cant close from long range, how are they suppose to win engagements? they dont have camo like other squads and therefore, cant ambush thats why ther quite durable to be able to close from long and its not just against falls they can do this.

Falls with the new changes, just need some RA improvements and i think they'll be fine.

Shocks close and win against most squads especially with sprint or smoke grenades but I don't think that they should win against Falls because Falls are supposed to be effective at all ranges and now need munitions for all 4 of their FG42s.

An RA buff is definitely a good idea but I also think Falls should spawn with either MP40s or maybe some G43s because Kar98Ks simply don't work with ambushing, their manpower cost could go up to compensate of course.

Just make Falls a 5-man squad with 3 Volks k98s and two FG-42. Same RA. Reduce the reinforce cost to 30/33. Boom. 300/330MP airborne deployable infantry squad with all their abilities and camo but no quad BARs BS.

Falls become one of the least squishy squads in the game and keep concentrated DPS and their ambush camo, abilities etc, but aren't terminators designed to replace obers and kill everything on the map. Everyone wins. No further upgrades besides maybe a 60muni 40muni(?) triple volks MP-40 upgrade (definitely not stormtrooper MP-40s). Said upgrade would however prevent picking up BARs and LMGs and whatnot.

Anyone who thinks such a 5-man camo squad with 0.85 0.83 base RA, a snare, frag grenade, smoke grenade, and two free BARs would be useless is also either kidding themselves or just wants Falls to be better Obers or something.

EDIT: I think Falls reinforcement time should also be reduced a bit, or at least that it should be during the ability which allows them to reinforce anywhere on the field. Presently that bonus ability really doesn't benefit them that much considering how slow to reinforce they are.

Just make Falls a 5-man squad with 3 Volks k98s and two FG-42. Same RA. Reduce the reinforce cost to 30/33. Boom. 300/330MP airborne deployable infantry squad with all their abilities and camo but no quad BARs BS.

Falls become one of the least squishy squads in the game and keep concentrated DPS and their ambush camo, abilities etc, but aren't terminators designed to replace obers and kill everything on the map. Everyone wins. No further upgrades besides maybe a 60muni triple volks MP-40 upgrade (definitely not stormtrooper MP-40s). Said upgrade would however prevent picking up BARs and LMGs and whatnot.

Anyone who thinks such a 5-man camo squad with 0.85 base RA, a snare, frag grenade, smoke grenade, and two free BARs would be useless is also either kidding themselves or just wants Falls to be better Obers or something.

This looks like a great idea, it pretty much solves all of their problems including their identity crisis with Obers. My only change would be the price of the MP40 upgrade, 3 MP40s is not worth 60 munitions, especially considering the assault package for Volks which comes with 5 MP40s and a smoke grenade only costs 45 munitions. 40 Munitions is a much more fair price.

Also, just how different are Volks, Stormtropper, and also assault grenadier MP40s? Maybe they would need their own stats.

Just make Falls a 5-man squad with 3 Volks k98s and two FG-42. Same RA. Reduce the reinforce cost to 30/33. Boom. 300/330MP airborne deployable infantry squad with all their abilities and camo but no quad BARs BS.

Falls become one of the least squishy squads in the game and keep concentrated DPS and their ambush camo, abilities etc, but aren't terminators designed to replace obers and kill everything on the map. Everyone wins. No further upgrades besides maybe a 60muni triple volks MP-40 upgrade (definitely not stormtrooper MP-40s). Said upgrade would however prevent picking up BARs and LMGs and whatnot.

Anyone who thinks such a 5-man camo squad with 0.85 base RA, a snare, frag grenade, smoke grenade, and two free BARs would be useless is also either kidding themselves or just wants Falls to be better Obers or something.

EDIT: I think Falls reinforcement time should also be reduced a bit, or at least that it should be during the ability which allows them to reinforce anywhere on the field. Presently that bonus ability really doesn't benefit them that much considering how slow to reinforce they are.

I really like this idea. It's a squad that's elite because of it's utility rather than say raw DPS. This would solidly differentiate them from obers who are the OKW glass cannons

This looks like a great idea, it pretty much solves all of their problems including their identity crisis with Obers. My only change would be the price of the MP40 upgrade, 3 MP40s is not worth 60 munitions, especially considering the assault package for Volks which comes with 5 MP40s and a smoke grenade only costs 45 munitions. 40 Munitions is a much more fair price.

Also, just how different are Volks, Stormtropper, and also assault grenadier MP40s? Maybe they would need their own stats.

For a time I thought Volks use the assgren MP-40 but honestly don't remember. I'll check attribute editor in a minute and edit this post with my findings.

EDIT: It is indeed an assgren MP-40, so presently a very capable close-range weapon. 40muni sounds good and I probably wouldn't go much lower considering the camo and RA they have, especially if this were to be a 300MP squad. At 330MP it becomes somewhat more debatable.