Soviet September patch discussion

Thanks for improving the Defensive Tactics commander.

It might be worth testing swapping the M42 for the 'Tank Hunter Ambush Tactics' ability.
It fits in really well with the defensive theme and would make the commander really solid.

Or swap the M42 for a KV1, now that it's a more defensive themed tank.

it's not behind vet, they said it 2 time already
it has it base

The 120mm flare to my knowlidge still is. So is the sniper flare.

The 120mm flare to my knowlidge still is. So is the sniper flare.

but we are talking about soviet base mortar right ?

but we are talking about soviet base mortar right ?

I was talking about flares being to pricy imo. This included the other as wel as they work the same. I should have stated that crearly.

Mobilize Reserves
Seven man conscripts were proving too potent with only the Molotov and AT grenade requirements, especially in conjunction with the price reduction in Soviet Tier 2 tech, and the traditional Soviet T70 power spike at very similar timing. The following change will represent a more meaningful choice for Soviet players.
- Mobilize reserves now costs 25 fuel and 100 Manpower to unlock (previously was 75 munitions)
- It still requires Molotov and AT Grenade tech, in addition to Soviet T3 being built.

This change was added in the 1.2 patch version.
Not sure if this is a good idea. One main reason why Conscrips are considered inferior to Penals was that they do not perform as well in combat for their price and that big MP and FU investments for AT nade and molotov are required to really make the best use of them, which heavily delayed the T34. The AT nade FU cost was then reasonably lowered from 35 to 10. To counteract the inferior AI ability, Cons were given mobilized reserves for mun.
Now mobilized reserves costs 25 FU and more MP, which gives more AI DPS for Cons, but also slightly reduces map presence of SOV and delays the T35 again. Fuelwise, we're back to the very old build, since now the complete upgrade package of AT nade, molotov and mobilized reserves costs as much as the molotov+AT nade of the old version (again - which was considered to delay the T34 too much).

Also is the upgrade now global? Or is it still possible to upgrade single squads?

So about the IS-2.......... wow

Also is the upgrade now global? Or is it still possible to upgrade single squads?

Still individual; 45 Munitions per squad.

What's everyone think about the PPSh upgrade? I feel like it's positioning in the game is horribly outdated. It's position hasn't moved much since it was released, yet new assault units have come earlier and earlier. Let's look at some common contemporary assault units and assault abilities:

0CP: Assault Grenadiers, Assault Engineers, Section Assault Package

1CP: Cavalry Riflemen

2CP: Shock Troops, Conscript Assault Package (balance patch)

3CP: Conscript Assault Package (live game)


Not only is the Conscript Assault Package possibly the weakest ability of the bunch (all of these have a full compliment of submachine guns), but also the latest. The sole advantage of the CAP is that it is the only one to retain Anti-Tank Grenades, and admittedly there is a strong argument to be made that this is exactly why it is the weakest, but more on that later.

For now, direct comparisons:

Assault Grenadiers have higher damage output but lower range, they can make up for this by sprinting though. Assault Engineers can upgrade to a flamethrowers, while Cavalry Riflemen can boost their firepower with Thompson SMG's. Shock Troops are the only unit with body armor, and have better PPSh's, in addition to also having twice as many.

The most similar comparison is probably to the similarly named and utilized Section Assault Package, which grands 2 Thompson SMG's and 3 STEN SMG's. This gives the Section at least similar firepower to the Conscripts, but comes at the very start of the game.

So where is it now? Well with Mobilize Reserves locking it out, the CAP has become even less attractive than it was before. And if the AT Grenade is actually the reason the for it's sub-par performance and late coming compared to all other Assault squads and packages, then maybe it's better off to replace the AT Grenade with an F1 Grenade as part of the package. Even then, it still has to compete with Mobilize Reserves, so further changes like reduction of target size or full compliment of submachine guns might be necessary.

Soviets

Support Weapon Kampaneya Show Spoiler
This a step in the wrong direction.
Can we stop messing with faction desing and stop making evrything avaialble to all faction? (the same way Ostheer tech become cheaper and soon OKW will have to also?)
Suggestions:
If T2 becomes cheaper then PTRS and satchel charges should be locked behind tech. For instance PTRS and AT satchel behind AT grenades (and mutally exclusives) and Sacthel behind molotovs or there could be a new tech called explosives giving acces to satchels and demolision charges.


Maxim Show Spoiler
Seems good.
Requires more testing.
Suggestions:
Reduce flame grenades by 5 or move to SP. That can solve halve the issues of maxims without any buff to the unit.

Conscripts 7th man upgrade Show Spoiler
Changes in good direction might need fine tuning. Conscript can become decent by investing on them.
It seem to require only T4 currently


Combat Engineers Show Spoiler
Solid changes

ZiS-3 and SU-76 76mm HE Barrage Show Spoiler
Solid changes.
Suggestions:
Check that Su-76 barrage damage does not improve with veterancy making more lethal.

Guards Rifle ‘Hit The Dirt!’ Ability Show Spoiler
Solid changes.
Guards are too powerful for an all around unit.
Suggestions:
1) Reduce the PTRS accuracy to Penal, make the ability timed that increases accuracy to current level.
(add the same ability to AT tommies and make spawn as 5 men even without Bolster)
2) Make the button affect work even if guards move

Conscript Assault Package Show Spoiler
The change promote blobbing.
Suggestions:
This doctrinal should not promote blobbing lock this upgrade behind tech.
In addition remove hit the ground from the ability there is little reason for these 2 abilities to come as package since they serve different roles.

Shocktroopers Show Spoiler
decent changes.
Suggestions:
unit is too powerful.
Suggestions:
Remove armor and add as timed ability.

KV-1 Show Spoiler
Unit is simply too cost efficient compared to PzIV H it is far more cost efficient.
Suggestion:
Since CE got repair speed replace received damage modifier with HP
Overhaul veterancy bonus and give armor and HP bonus
Rethink hull-down bonuses the ROF at vet 3 would probably be bellow 3 secs
Tone down the mgs they are too powerful compared to other tanks
Lower rear armor
Increase price of T34/85 the units is too cost efficient
Increase near penetration


IS-2 Show Spoiler
As other Super heavies delay arrival keep CP lowering Fuel

Partisan Troops Show Spoiler
Unit is cost efficient.
Suggestions:
Remove Frag grenade make molotov available without upgrade
Allow merge

Partisan Tank Hunters Show Spoiler
Unit is cost efficient.
Suggestion:
Remove Shreck and vet penetration bonus on shreck.
Unit start with AT grenade unlock but on cool-down has to buy Shreck. Reduce target size.
Reduce cost slightly
Allow merge


KV-2 Show Spoiler
As other Super heavies delay arrival keep CP lowering Fuel

Defensive Tactics Show Spoiler
Good changes
Suggestions:
Add sandbags for C.E.
Reduce target size for tanks trap increase built change cover to yellow
increase built of mines for conscripts


1.2 Airborne Guards Show Spoiler
Value probably too low since it is the same drop rate as Guards who have 4 weapons instead of 3. Maybe 0.2?

Soviets

Support Weapon Kampaneya Show Spoiler

This a step in the wrong direction.
Can we stop messing with faction desing and stop making evrything avaialble to all faction? (the same way Ostheer tech become cheaper and soon OKW will have to also?)
Suggestions:
If T2 becomes cheaper then PTRS and satchel charges should be locked behind tech. For instance PTRS and AT satchel behind AT grenades (and mutally exclusives) and Sacthel behind molotovs or there could be a new tech called explosives giving acces to satchels and demolision charges.


Maxim Show Spoiler

Seems good.
Requires more testing.
Suggestions:
Reduce flame grenades by 5 or move to SP. That can solve halve the issues of maxims without any buff to the unit.

Conscripts 7th man upgrade Show Spoiler

Changes in good direction might need fine tuning. Conscript can become decent by investing on them.
It seem to require only T4 currently


Combat Engineers Show Spoiler

Solid changes

ZiS-3 and SU-76 76mm HE Barrage Show Spoiler

Solid changes.
Suggestions:
Check that Su-76 barrage damage does not improve with veterancy making more lethal.

Guards Rifle ‘Hit The Dirt!’ Ability Show Spoiler

Solid changes.
Guards are too powerful for an all around unit.
Suggestions:
1) Reduce the PTRS accuracy to Penal, make the ability timed that increases accuracy to current level.
(add the same ability to AT tommies and make spawn as 5 men even without Bolster)
2) Make the button affect work even if guards move

Conscript Assault Package Show Spoiler

The change promote blobbing.
Suggestions:
This doctrinal should not promote blobbing lock this upgrade behind tech.
In addition remove hit the ground from the ability there is little reason for these 2 abilities to come as package since they serve different roles.

Shocktroopers Show Spoiler

decent changes.
Suggestions:
unit is too powerful.
Suggestions:
Remove armor and add as timed ability.

KV-1 Show Spoiler

Unit is simply too cost efficient compared to PzIV H it is far more cost efficient.
Suggestion:
Since CE got repair speed replace received damage modifier with HP
Overhaul veterancy bonus and give armor and HP bonus
Rethink hull-down bonuses the ROF at vet 3 would probably be bellow 3 secs
Tone down the mgs they are too powerful compared to other tanks
Lower rear armor
Increase price of T34/85 the units is too cost efficient
Increase near penetration


IS-2 Show Spoiler

As other Super heavies delay arrival keep CP lowering Fuel

Partisan Troops Show Spoiler

Unit is cost efficient.
Suggestions:
Remove Frag grenade make molotov available without upgrade
Allow merge

Partisan Tank Hunters Show Spoiler

Unit is cost efficient.
Suggestion:
Remove Shreck and vet penetration bonus on shreck.
Unit start with AT grenade unlock but on cool-down has to buy Shreck. Reduce target size.
Reduce cost slightly
Allow merge


KV-2 Show Spoiler

As other Super heavies delay arrival keep CP lowering Fuel

Defensive Tactics Show Spoiler

Good changes
Suggestions:
Add sandbags for C.E.
Reduce target size for tanks trap increase built change cover to yellow
increase built of mines for conscripts


1.2 Airborne Guards Show Spoiler

value probably too low maybe 0.2?

No thanks. Shocks are powerful? By the time thwy come out ass grens are already vetted. Long range pazfusiliers are also vetted and mass g43 blob shred shocks as they charge.
So you want to penals satchels behind further tech? They are a 300mp unit. Not some 250 mp unit. And if occurs as u wish then soviets are done especially the current teaching cost of upgrading both molotov and At nadr for cons and extra fuel upgrade as well. Then individual muni upgrade. So no thanks. Im sure others will disagree too.
Guards are 360 squad which is doctrinal and comes with ptrs. You have to invest in them to make them work decent against infantry. If you want their ptrs values as penals then might as well build penals. Whats the point of making guards? ????

Kv1 is a slow tank. Vetting it up is an another nightmare. I am not sure how hull down ability is too powerful? Im sorry maybe you shouldn't have ket the kv to gain veterancy.
T34/85 are notoriously for missing shots on point blanks
Maybe balance team can look into the values.

And last. Airborne guards at 380 mp are specialized squads. It will be strange that they dropping their weapons left and right when ever they die and retreat to base. You never ses drops of fg24 or g43 if we compare upgradeable weapon upgrades.

.... You never ses drops of fg24 or g43 if we compare upgradeable weapon upgrades.

Thanks for the feedback.

On the other hand it seems you are stretching to find bias every where...conscript's SVT and PPsh do not drop either...

Thanks for the feedback.

On the other hand it seems you are stretching to find bias every where...conscript's SVT and PPsh do not drop either...

Yes i agree. Svt could be picked by other Squads after a paradrop before they fixed it.

Just make the animation of the molotov throw for Conscripts be faster instead.

Maybe faster by 1 second or 2 since it feels slow.

hey guys what if SU started with a cons and an eng squad ? or what if first cons squad was free of mp ? would it bee too op ?

hey guys what if SU started with a cons and an eng squad ? or what if first cons squad was free of mp ? would it bee too op ?

Granted

They still only start with 4 rifles though

Maybe can change HQ medical upgrade be give HQ 35m and 2HP/s heal aura？Now infantry often jam together

hey guys what if SU started with a cons and an eng squad ? or what if first cons squad was free of mp ? would it bee too op ?

it would unnecessarily buff T1... making soviet T1 anymore powerful is unacceptable...

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - VERSION 1.3

Soviets

Support Weapon Kompaneya(T2)
We are slightly increasing the price of T2 to reduce the rush into T70 and stronger Conscript builds.
- Fuel cost from 10 to 15

Assault Guards
Due to popular demand, we are giving Assault Guards Thompson SMGs. This should increase the unit's firepower and better reflect the cost and timing of the Half-Track Assault Group.
- Comes equipped with 3 Thompson submachine guns in addition to their SVTs.
- PPSh-41s removed.

IS-2
With its high armor, we felt the IS-2 should have reduced killing power against infantry while remaining relatively consistent in terms of accuracy.
- Far AOE from 0.2 to 0.175
- Far AOE distance from 3.5 to

It's a shame that there won't be any more tweaks to the 'Defensive Tactics' commander.

The commander is so close to being a solid and useful commander. All you need to do is swap the M42 for something more useful (tank hunter ambush tactics or a KV1).

It's better than it was, but still not good enough to be viable, except maybe in 3v3 and 4v4.


Also, why not change demo charges so that one demo charge always destroys decrewed weapons, it would give demo charges some great utility and give Soviets a reason to actually use them.

can we reduce the cost of the 7th man upgrade and make it free again once tier 4 is reached ?

and maxim is still not a real mg, increase set up time and increase suppression