Posts: 5279
Does Assault Guard veterancy still differ significantly from normal Guard veterancy?
Should be looked into if it's so, patch only mentioned they get Thompsons instead of PPSH's.
Posts: 416 | Subs: 1
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Normal Guards get:
1 Firing Positions
2 .88 RA, 1.14 acc, 1.1 pen
3 .75 RA, 1.14 acc, .8 cd, +25% button duration
2560 xp required for vet 3.
Assault Guards:
1 Flares
2 .71 RA, .75 cd
3 40% acc, +25% grenade range
2880 xp required for vet 3.
Assault Guard vet is basically the same as Shock Troop vet, but has higher requirements (2720 for them).
Seems fitting for the unit, and not overpowered. The requirements had been too high, but might be more reasonable now that the squad deals a lot more damage.
Posts: 3260
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Can we ditch Conscript sidetech?
They're never going to stack up against Penals when you have to pay extra to have the same capabilities for worse troops.
Posts: 3260
That is a problem of Penal that need no side tech and not conscripts, side tech is good from a design point of view. It the Penal that need to looked at and not conscripts especially if OKW start get toned down.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
You could lock Penal troops's stuff behind the sidetech, but then the sidetechs would become automatic purchases.
And if the sidetechs are automatic purchases, there's not really any point in having them. Just factor them into the teching cost instead.
USF and UKF pulled off sidetech acceptably. Soviet's sidetech has been a train wreck from the start.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Imo sidetech can easily work for the soviet. Side tech allows you to choose if you want to invest into a unit or not. And since Soviets have so many good doctrinal option imo it is the way to go.
The player will have the option to either improve his core units with side tech or invest in doctrinal units.
The current changes to T2 (cheaper) do not make more attractive simply because T1 offers to much for too little. Instead they allow back tech solidifying T1 as the best option.
If one lock penal power behind side techs and upgrades T2 will become more attractive with out leading to maxim spam.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
Or it could completely backfire and move soviets back into call-in inf spam meta due to inefficient resource having to be pumped into infantry to be competitive, forcing tech delay every single time.
Keep in mind that for side tech to be a viable option, base unit also needs to be cost efficient and viable option, otherwise you'll just repeat cons again.
Trying to force side upgrades with excuse of them having doctrinal infantries is extremely bad argument, given that current penal state is a direct response to allow soviets to play without call-in infantry doctrines.
T2 will never be attractive option if maxim remains inefficient and con 7th man comes so late.
Best case scenario, meta will shift back to M3 flamer into cons+snipers into guard spam.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It's unlikely scenario. I wouldn't dramatize so much.
Simple weapon upgrade or a sidetech upgrade would be as natural as a lmg upgrade for grens or riflemen. It doesn't make unit completely worthless, it just reduces it's starting power and splits in into later stages of the game.
As Vipper wrote it would allow penals to be a cheaper, easier to access infantry unit but with locked SVTs upgrade (assumingly stronger that current becouse of the sidetech upgrade) they could become elite infantry squad with good scaling in time and efficiency more appropriate for a mid stage of a match rather than first min of a game. Same as panzerfuzziliers are made after the revamp.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
It's unlikely scenario. I wouldn't dramatize so much.
Simple weapon upgrade or a sidetech upgrade would be as natural as a lmg upgrade for grens or riflemen. It doesn't make unit completely worthless, it just reduces it's starting power and splits in into later stages of the game.
As Vipper wrote it would allow penals to be a cheaper, easier to access infantry unit but with locked SVTs upgrade (assumingly stronger that current becouse of the sidetech upgrade) they could become elite infantry squad with good scaling in time and efficiency more appropriate for a mid stage of a match rather than first min of a game. Same as panzerfuzziliers are made after the revamp.
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
You are all also completely ignoring for whatever reason timing, penals arrive much later then any other mainline and are always outnumbered and opening with penals leaves you with much lower map control in early game, exposing you to lights and you think its a good idea to delay own lights even further?
And what's the point then in the Penals if they have to buy SVT-40?
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No1 said it would keep it;s 300MP cost.
For the timing - grens says hello.
It needs complete revamp of penals but it's possible and it could work, possibly better than current solution
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
Hence what I've said in the first sentence?
Last sentence regards to people complaining about them being "op" now, while completely ignoring everything else that isn't 1v1 vacuum scenario.
Go check the build time for grens and ost T1 and compare that to soviet T1 and penals.
Then go and compare how long it takes to build 3 grens and how long it takes to build 3 penals, including manpower income.
Return with surprised pikachu face.
I honestly doubt that, given what mod team already said about penals and penal openings.
It needs complete revamp of penals (in price, build time, reinforcing cost, etc.) but it's possible and it could work, possibly better than current solution
Posts: 321
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
Same as panzerfuzzilier without G43 upgrade
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
Plus that war isn't balanced..
What they really should remove is that retreat option on Penals, because if they did retreat in 1943 the commissar would shoot them due to order 227.
Posts: 4474
g43 come at tier 1 tho
No, not the same. For Penals, you spend resources for T1 (160mp + 10 fuel) and do not get support. Panzerfuzzilier in T0 and you can go to any tier and in any case you will get MG-34.
So the fines with the purchase of SVT-40 - the death of T1.
Katitof-2018
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
g43 come at tier 1 tho
Posts: 4474
they should come in doc tho
In any case, what would the Penals with the purchase of SVT-40 be at least somehow comparable with the Fusiliers, they should be T0. Conscripts in T0. No one will move Penals. Penals - either remain the same or must be removed and SVT-40 are given to Conscripts.
Katitof-2018
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