70 ammo for just 1 Panzerschreck still, Why?

On the eastern front maybe?


Tank hunter partisans, AT conscripts, also penals, sort of

I meant with the axis, but yes those do have snares.

It would make more sense to give them captured PTRS upgrade as new models or guns are not being added. the axis captured large numbers of these and then put them into service.

Anyone who has played red orchestra 2 will see this

Panzerbüchse 39 is a weapon ingame.

On the eastern front maybe?


Tank hunter partisans, AT conscripts, also penals, sort of

You really think this game has any historic theme?

The german fraction still are bad designed, what it really needs is a healthy mix between Ostheer and Westheer, switching some units and revamp some of them.

That is true. It is something that they should too also fix. Make it the same price or somewhat cheaper than the MG42. That needs some fixing also.

A single M1919 makes Rifles better by 14-20% at max range (35), and that increases the closer you get. That's why they're more expensive (and doc-locked). I would keep them this way.
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It would make more sense to give them captured PTRS upgrade as new models or guns are not being added. the axis captured large numbers of these and then put them into service.

Anyone who has played red orchestra 2 will see this

This makes a lot of sense. The single shreck is really strange because it gives incredibly high alpha damage, but very low effective DPS. Replacing it with 1 or 2 PTRS' would fix a lot; less powerful late-game AT, more consistent early game AT.

It was 90 before, 70 now. However, let us say we reduce it to 65, which somehow sounds far more reasonable than 70. The new pricing of 65 is only 15 munitions more than a bazooka, for which you need to tech. 20 munitions is already stretching it. However, the 50 price for bazookas is merely to prevent them from being spammed insanely much if you ask me.

Is a 5 munition difference really that big a deal? I mean, you'll only ever probably be inclined to make one unless you're some rank 2000+ sturm spammer, so that's like drops in the bucket.

It would make more sense to give them captured PTRS upgrade as new models or guns are not being added. the axis captured large numbers of these and then put them into service.

Anyone who has played red orchestra 2 will see this

Did you forgot that Sturmpioneers are Oberkommando West units?

70 munis is worth it. U get faster vet on sturms which is very important for repairs as sturms vet slowly. Plus USF/UKF need to tech for zooks (unless lt) but u can only get one lt anyways.

70 munis is worth it. U get faster vet on sturms which is very important for repairs as sturms vet slowly. Plus USF/UKF need to tech for zooks (unless lt) but u can only get one lt anyways.

Perhaps, but the sweeper upgrade also increases repair speed.

UKF and USF can get minesweepers on an AT squad for less manpower, where as OKW must choose to specialize a very expensive infantry squad. That is the reason I think the panzershrek upgrade is not seen much at all in high level games, it's a bad call to go without sweepers and an even worse call to get a second sturm squad just to sweep.

Is there a justification from locking out sweepers with shreks when other factions can buy the same and it doesn't seem to be much of a problem?

Perhaps, but the sweeper upgrade also increases repair speed.

UKF and USF can get minesweepers on an AT squad for less manpower, where as OKW must choose to specialize a very expensive infantry squad. That is the reason I think the panzershrek upgrade is not seen much at all in high level games, it's a bad call to go without sweepers and an even worse call to get a second sturm squad just to sweep.

Is there a justification from locking out sweepers with shreks when other factions can buy the same and it doesn't seem to be much of a problem?

Well it kinda undermines the whole holstering the sweeper mechanic because sturms with a schreck have nonexistant AI. So putting away the sweeper would be redundant if you go from nonexistant AI to also nonexistant AI.

Well it kinda undermines the whole holstering the sweeper mechanic because sturms with a schreck have nonexistant AI. So putting away the sweeper would be redundant if you go from nonexistant AI to also nonexistant AI.

I think minute 10 or so puts them at nonexistent AI when it becomes quite dangerous to close in enough for winning damage so I'm fine with the sweeper + shrek Both taking STG slots at that point. If they vet up enough they can use the neat stun grenades that always seem out of reach or make up for it with 3 vet 5 stgs

I just don't see how you can play a game without minesweepers or expect double sturms to scale well in the current state of game.

OP, your point is hard to validate. Yet still i can try to give you my best idea. Two pshreck on sturmpios is just too much, on the axis side is just too expensive and not that reliable, on the allied side is kind of OP or at least not balanced compared to other standard handheld AT. It does though resemble AT Rear echelons but stumpio with 2x shreks is much more dangerous, lets be clear about that.

If the upgrade were to include 2 shreks, it should diminish other unit aspect very distinctively. For example, make 2xshrecks cost 100 muni but also remove stgs for mp40s or kars. Or give 4xPzbuches to give penal like AT capabilities (wich are by no means OP compared to shreks)

I would like to see the sweeper and repair+shrek upgrade to be independient but stackable and the put out sweeper also puts out the shrek. This way sturmpios get more value and also become riskier to use since they are already expensive and not cost efficient. I would even like to bundle shrek+sweeper for 70 muni and call it a day.
If you can put out both of them you got what you wanted (cheaper shrek) and people wanting only sweeper now have to pay also for shreks (wich is not what they wanted)
A fair tradeoff nerf/buff ratio.

Getting 2 Pzschrecks for Sturmpio is a bad idea since it does really distinguish them from other current wielders. It would simply be dull, boring and uninteresting.

Having 1 Pzschreck only for its current cost is extremely undermined and clearly not distinguished. It is as of now, never used, due to its extreme inefficiency.


What I think would be interesting:
Giving Panzerbursche or PTRS would be quite an interesting dynamic change that I am willing to see. To create a different profile or a more dynamic faction distinguished from its currently ally.


They really do vet too slowly currently. Is it broken because they are one of the hardest units to vet.

I hardly even know what kind of grenade they are even using since it hardly ever reaches vet 3 unless you make it survive a straight 25-30 minutes.

Is it a stun grenade because I can hardly tell.

Just let sturms stow them and call it a day. The single Shrek is to be supplement AT not game carrying. Okw has AT of all shapes and sizes, but man AT isn't their strong suit and there isn't anything particularly wrong with that, assuming the rakk can be changed to be somewhat more reliable

The price fo the Shrek, I feel is fine. It shouldn't be an easy choice like Shreks generally are, it's more emergency AT than anything and the urgency has a price

As to the PTRS, I'd see the IR HT removed to the spec ops doctrine in place of flares and altered to function differently then put a tank hunter squad in its place. 4 men with PTRS and a satchel snare or maybe a Faust barrage (like the nade barrage but fausts, just high damage like the snare to prevent pushing) upgrade to Shreks or a 5th man?

The main reason why this 70 muni single schreck seems so unfair, cuz panzergrenadiers and fusiliers get 2 schrecks for only 50 per piece! And even with schrecks, PGs are somewhat usable in AI combat and having more PGs doesn't hinder the player, especially with the new skip T1 meta.
60 muni for sturm schreck sounds more fair, it still has the emergency component to it while not being too expensive compared to other squads.
(and as I mentioned, 75 muni screck on stormtroopers is fine, cuz they have free camo too)

No I think the problem is the stupid double schreks cost only 100 munitions when it should be 140 munitions.

No I think the problem is the stupid double schreks cost only 100 munitions when it should be 140 munitions.

You're forgetting that the double schrek upgrade also takes away snares and disables the G43/6th man upgrade and thus pretty much kills the squads AI.

Just let sturms stow them and call it a day. The single Shrek is to be supplement AT not game carrying. Okw has AT of all shapes and sizes, but man AT isn't their strong suit and there isn't anything particularly wrong with that, assuming the rakk can be changed to be somewhat more reliable

The price fo the Shrek, I feel is fine. It shouldn't be an easy choice like Shreks generally are, it's more emergency AT than anything and the urgency has a price

As to the PTRS, I'd see the IR HT removed to the spec ops doctrine in place of flares and altered to function differently then put a tank hunter squad in its place. 4 men with PTRS and a satchel snare or maybe a Faust barrage (like the nade barrage but fausts, just high damage like the snare to prevent pushing) upgrade to Shreks or a 5th man?

Despite what you think about the Schreck, I still think it requires some improvements, particularly the Sturmpio. I like the 5th man option though but it then should be available after 1 base built costing also 60 or 70 ammo.

I mean this emergency idea is just something I just heard out of the blue. Is it what is stated or assumed because it is called "AT package". Not emergency.

Which other can you actually find this so called "emergency inefficient overpriced AT" for any other faction?

Respectively, from what I can recall, no other has this "emergency kit" feature. All other having proper and viable AT choices and viability leaving OKW in the worst spot possible.

Something has to be changed and fixed because it really is currently inefficient and too costy for being so.

It really seems OKW is being purposely bullied by whomever with the attempt to cause huge AT department deficit which they do experience a lot, very frustrating, like this Sturmpio 70 ammo AT package 1 Pzschreck. Really, Why?

Despite what you think about the Schreck, I still think it requires some improvements, particularly the Sturmpio. I like the 5th man option though but it then should be available after 1 base built costing also 60 or 70 ammo.

I mean this emergency idea is just something I just heard out of the blue. Is it what is stated or assumed because it is called "AT package". Not emergency.

Which other can you actually find this so called "emergency inefficient overpriced AT" for any other faction?

Respectively, from what I can recall, no other has this "emergency kit" feature. All other having proper and viable AT choices and viability leaving OKW in the worst spot possible.

Something has to be changed and fixed because it really is currently inefficient and too costy for being so.

It really seems OKW is being purposely bullied by whomever with the attempt to cause huge AT department deficit which they do experience a lot, very frustrating, like this Sturmpio 70 ammo AT package 1 Pzschreck. Really, Why?

i call it emergency AT because its clearly not intended to take the entiretly of AT duties (like say, pgrens in light of the t2 skip have shown to, or penals, who otherwise lack access to an AT unit due to teching) okw will always have a rak, the shrek is there to give a more mobile, but less effective option. just because it doesnt say "emergency" doesnt mean it itsn. the combat engies are called combat engineers and they can neither bring anything to combat, nor build anything and their demo is less efficient than a satchel for demolitions of enemy buildings. a name is a name is name and a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.

keep in mind, if you make the ability for a t0 assault unit to scale efficiently against its would be counter you risk creating no down side to double sturm starts on maps that allow for it. they pack a whollop in the early game, a pair more so, and cheap and easy transitional AT makes that less risky

also just because it isnt availible in any other faction doesnt mean its not so. i dont know any other factions that have a tech building that shoots down planes, or the ability to scan the front line through sight blockers.

now im not saying that sturms couldnt use a change (in the past i suggested nerfing them, reducing their cost and letting them pick upgrade paths that refine and improve thir capabilities instead of being torn between engineer/assaulter/AT/minesweeper/healer and there were buffs to the AT package portion, but as is now, i dont see any issue due to the vast amounts of alternate AT options

Hey dont forget you also receive overpowered freezing immunity with the upgrade, thats why it costs 70 instead of 50 or 60

Because SP combat package also give them coats……although blizzard remove……
I think SP combat package and tools package should not lock each other，SP use too many population，tools package increase repair speed is more important for SP，maybe give them some limit but allowed SP can upgrade both package，like deployed second HQ allowed SP upgrade second package