Should the King Tiger be a standard OKW unit?

This honestly seems strange to me why this unit should be available with any OKW doctrine. No other faction does this. People complain that its fairly weak for what it is and I don't entirety disagree but it got nerfed like that probably due in part to it being a stock unit.

It's fine, and fits the theme of OKW.

Should CODGUY keep making threads?

This honestly seems strange to me why does he keep making threads about OKW. Not about any other faction.

Should CODGUY keep making threads?

This honestly seems strange to me why does he keep making threads about OKW. Not about any other faction.

OP should add a poll to answer this.

Considering I defeated him as a lvl 2 okw player, anything he says should be irrelevant esp if it has anything to do with balancing.

While none of you have to agree with him, you've got to hand him that first his threads, even if they are often biased, usually spark a big discussion that gets more or less constructive after the first wave of bullshittery and second, this topic is one of the most reasonable he has posted recently as well as he gives a decent argument. So maybe stop bullshitting people at spots where it's not really due.

The KT needs a buff to get it back to relevance. The question is if a faction should be able to buy a heavy tank sixth commander slot for approximately 50 fuel, and also that fuel investment gives you other boni and possibilities.
If the KT becomes a decent unit again, this question is very much valid. Honestly I'm not sure how to handle it, OKW has no heavy tank in almost any other doctrine due to the KT, but of course the free slot gives another goodie to OKW.
I'd say buff the KT to a normal level, then we'll see how much of a problem it really becomes. If it is a problem, I propose another side tech as a paywall to hide the KT behind it, so that the OKW player really has to pay without directly getting a benefit for what is basically a sixth commander slot.

Also if the KT would become a normal commander slot, we'd have the problem to revamp all OKW commanders, which won't happen. The last big commander revamp aimed for two commanders per faction, although there are so many useless ones more. We can't redo all of OKWs commanders anymore.

This honestly seems strange to me why this unit should be available with any OKW doctrine. No other faction does this. People complain that its fairly weak for what it is and I don't entirety disagree but it got nerfed like that probably due in part to it being a stock unit.

yes it is strange and reflects how OKW was, in my opinion, a really bad designed and not well thought through faction (Relic rushed it). OKW always have access to Super Elite inf and Super heavy tanks without any doctrines. However you cant really change that now since OKW's commanders are designed around this.

So I say keep the Tiger-2 but change it a bit. Maybe do something like this:
- Make the KT have to switch between AT and AI rounds similar to the ISU-152
that would make it a little bit more micro intensive and also make any stats buff not be as game breaking.

Historically speaking, there were only around 500 KTs produced, so us seeing more King Tigers than Tigers, of which there were around 1300 and something produced, almost 3 times the amount, even in 1944, is very odd.

Balance and gameplay/design wise, it balances out the late game I suppose altho the OKW would probably be fine even without it non-doctrinally, they still have the better Panzer IV H and Panther compared to the Ostheer.

Problem is as already mentioned the OKW and it's commanders being designed around having the KT as a non-doctrinal unit, so if you take it out now you will need to stick it in 1 or 2 doctrines since there are not a lot to go around in terms of theme.

If that happens tho I think a look at the OKW support weapons might be in order then since they're underperforming compared to others.

The alternative is that all Armies get their heavy tank non doctrinally.

The Ostheer would get the Tiger after all BPs have been researched for example and the last (2?) tier buildings have been built, same with the Soviets with their KV1 which is not even present in that many doctrines to be a problem. UKF would be as it is, USF could get their Pershing then in the same way or something.

I think the replacement for these units then would be pretty easy, King Tiger would replace the Tiger in most of the Ost doctrines, IS-2 for the KV1 replacement, E8 for the USF replacement and so on.

Of course that would then even out the playing field but would probably cause some balance concerns and the "OMG YOU'RE MAKING THEM TOO SIMILAR!11!!" crowd would probably get a heart attack but I think it's doable.

so many nazi cyber warriors here

the faction is made in mind with the kt as a base unit, should we remove usf crews ? and lock it to some doc ?

should codguy be banned for spreading false stats, miss information, trolling, and spam ?

Let staff handle spam issues or pm them if you think you spotted misuse that flew under the radar. Misunformation is best combatted by stats and decent discussion culture...

so many nazi cyber warriors here

the faction is made in mind with the kt as a base unit, should we remove usf crews ? and lock it to some doc ?

... so what about both of you discuss to the topic?

As I said, I think taking King Tiger away from OKW and revamping the commanders would open Pandora's Box. There's also no reason why OKW should not get a heavy tank, and the K fits the theme of expensive elite units that OKW was initially about. We just should find a way to make it both viable and balanced again

Let staff handle spam issues or pm them if you think you spotted misuse that flew under the radar. Misunformation is best combatted by stats and decent discussion culture...





... so what about both of you discuss to the topic?

As I said, I think taking King Tiger away from OKW and revamping the commanders would open Pandora's Box. There's also no reason why OKW should not get a heavy tank, and the K fits the theme of expensive elite units that OKW was initially about. We just should find a way to make it both viable and balanced again

just revamping the commanders won't work, u are removing a stock unit for nothing, at least give something else

I can understand the point. OKW is also fine without the King Tiger powerwise, as we can see at the moment since nobody uses the unit. It would just be a shame since it would take options away from OKW that were originally intended to be a centerpoint of the faction.
I think the best solution is to make KT a decent unit again and then OKW should pay extra for the possibility to buy it.
Back teching to med HQ or mechanized is not really a sacrifice, as you gain option to medics and LeIg or repair guys and the Walking StuKa, respectively. That's all useful in the late game and rarely wasted resources in most modes, even in 1v1

i don't think that will fix it as people will still cry, cause u can't make a strong cost effective expensive tank, people will just say that it does not matter how much it cost it will not be fair when it's out

I think the KT is fine, especially with the potency of allied TDs right now and the absolutely neutered scatter on the KT making it generally more of a vet pinata than an actual impactful unit. RNG is the f course RNG. Furthermore, this is a codguy thread and he thinks the Jackson needs more health so it's more forgiving just so we are all aware of where the balance bar rests on the OP.

Stug, I'm not sure what you're refering to. That KT buffs are impossible due to the community? Or something else?

Tiger and Pershing are quite well designed units, they do have an impact that forces both players to adapt their strategy around the heavy tank, allow for counter play and are potent when supported.
And they're both quite expensive.
I think the KT is a bit slow. At the moment is almost MUST win every fight, because retreat is not a real option. There once was a huge thread about the KT, I don't think we need to repeat all of the stuff here.
You can disagree with Codguy whenever you please and many of his other suggestions deserved the critique that they got, but here he started a decent discussion. He even agreed that the KT is a bit on the weak side, so at least here he's not as one sided as you make him.

people have problem with expensive things that actually works, cause they would need to reflect their cost and be very hard to kill or very deadly, if u make the kt more expensive to reach but actually work for it's price people will complain cause they only see the unit not what u paid to reach it, so if u make something too expensive and actually perform for it's price people will complain (ex: if usf could pay 1000 fuel for a nuke that reduced all inf to 1 model and dealt 600 damage to all vehicle, even of it's balanced by the cost people will complain cause they don't see the cost just the effect)

generally there is a breaking point where u can't make a unit more expensive or people will see it as op (even if it's balanced by the cost)

To be honest I do agree with that, CoH should not become a tower defense were you hold out until a timer runs out where you can press an "I win" button.
Even making the KT cheaper and a bit worse would be okay with me. Just the cost/performance is a bit off at the moment