Login

russian armor

Ostheer and Soviet FRP discussion

30 Jul 2019, 18:27 PM
#21
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711


You should see that Relic tried different strategies with this mechanic and the three new factions have different benefits and cost. I do think that OST and SOV would benefit on larger maps, although I am not a big fan of real retreat points. Soft retreating from fights should be encouraged by forward heal and reinforcement points, a real retreat should be punished by longer walking times. Real FRPs should be expensive as with UK and OKW, USF could use a very slight nerf here, maybe in the form of 1 pop and a bit more MP on the major.

Nice writing. As soft FRP it could be upgrade for halftruck (OST and SU) to med halftruck with increased area of reinforcement and healing aura when it stationary.
30 Jul 2019, 18:31 PM
#22
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2019, 18:27 PMMaret

Nice writing. As soft FRP it could be upgrade for halftruck (OST and SU) to med halftruck with increased area of reinforcement and healing aura when it stationary.


No highly mobile FRP pls.

Rather see the suggestion of OP implemented, although I'd like it even more if all FRP's got removed.
30 Jul 2019, 18:35 PM
#23
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jul 2019, 18:27 PMMaret

Nice writing. As soft FRP it could be upgrade for halftruck (OST and SU) to med halftruck with increased area of reinforcement and healing aura when it stationary.


I would give SOV an upgradable healing ability for 60 mun or so (exclusive with the Flak upgrade and squad transport of course), while OST should get a slight cost reduction (down to 40-50) mun for the healing and command upgrade on the bunker.

That would stay in line with OST defensive and static play. The problem with Soviets is that the idea were cheaper throw-away units. This is not true anymore for Penals, and even Conscripts have gotten more in line with other main line infantry. I have a little bit mixed feelings for giving SOV forward healing, but since it were to be for soft retreating squads only, I think it should be fine.
30 Jul 2019, 18:39 PM
#24
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2



No highly mobile FRP pls.

Rather see the suggestion of OP implemented, although I'd like it even more if all FRP's got removed.

Maybe that would even be the better nerf to USF Major: disabling the FRP would take a few seconds, so that the Major is at risk of dying if the USF player is not careful.
30 Jul 2019, 19:38 PM
#25
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



No highly mobile FRP pls.

Rather see the suggestion of OP implemented, although I'd like it even more if all FRP's got removed.


+1
30 Jul 2019, 19:53 PM
#26
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I completely agree with hannibal, if there is no incentive for soft retreats the game becomes a low skill push+R strategy.

Again, reinforcing platforms could receive a little buff on their durability (includin the USF one), maybe implementing a new static 'logistic' toggle mode.
30 Jul 2019, 20:25 PM
#27
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Let's start stating some facts again as wuite a few people are missing the point and to make the current differences clear to everyone before potential bullshitting.

OST: no retreat point, halftrack reinforcement, bunker reinforcement and healing, one-time single squad healing for muni each time the ability is used
SOV: doctrinal FRP on one single commander, halftrack reinforcement, NO healing outside of the base sector
OKW: FRP and healing upgradable when teched (both together quite expensive and rarely seen in smaller modes), med crates healing. Volks self heal in late game at vet5
USF: mobile FRP, reinforcement and healing. Most expensive healing unit in game and there are no other options. Comes at the price of constan tuse of population and opportunity cost for not using abilities of the major
USF: FRP, healing and reinforcements in FOBs. VERY expensive to build both, I would assume that even larger modes rarely allow Brits to get both down. Upgradable AoE healing on IS as pay-once upgrade



For completion sake. Might still miss something.

OH:
-There's the whole medical supply drop which boost stats as well.
-Not now, but i think balance team tested giving the new commander HT some FRP but then was removed as it was not intended.
-Since you mention self healing, Stormtrooper/JI can do so(?)

SOV: you are missing several ones.
-Doesn't the new commander allow to drop medical crates on top of FRP ?
-Commissar heal.
-FHQ allows reinforcement and healing

USF:
-Paras don't sel heal? They reinforce on radio beacons.
-Doesn't the Halftrack are able to drop medkits ?

OKW:
-Sure there are more self healing squads.
-Opel Blitz

UKF:
-Halftrack
-Commandos self heal
-FHQ (only reinforce)
30 Jul 2019, 20:48 PM
#28
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

tnx elchino7, i was about to do the same. But the point is still solid, OH and SU benefit from not having FRP because they can have other options, to name a few, Stock rocket arty or elite infantry on T1 (or T2)
30 Jul 2019, 20:53 PM
#29
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Remove all Forward Retreat Points for all factions!! I actually don't care about USF having it, just remove it from OKW and Brits lol.
30 Jul 2019, 20:56 PM
#30
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2



For completion sake. Might still miss something.

OH:
-There's the whole medical supply drop which boost stats as well.
-Not now, but i think balance team tested giving the new commander HT some FRP but then was removed as it was not intended.
-Since you mention self healing, Stormtrooper/JI can do so(?)

SOV: you are missing several ones.
-Doesn't the new commander allow to drop medical crates on top of FRP ?
-Commissar heal.
-FHQ allows reinforcement and healing

USF:
-Paras don't sel heal? They reinforce on radio beacons.
-Doesn't the Halftrack are able to drop medkits ?

OKW:
-Sure there are more self healing squads.
-Opel Blitz

UKF:
-Halftrack
-Commandos self heal
-FHQ (only reinforce)

While I would not have remembered all of this, I consciously did not mention most of them to keep things more clear to the readers.
I also thought about skipping the SOV commander FRP, mentioned it in the end as an FRP is probably one of the most impactful abilities compared to a commander healing drop. Therefore someone would surely have brought it up and if it's just for the sake of nagging my general argument.
Also I only mentioned Volksgrenadiere since these are mainline infantry and you usually have 3-4 of them, so they are basically the main reason why you need healing in the first place. Self healing on them maybe does not make healing obsolete, but less necessary by far. Maybe you could even sustain med crates if you only need them for the support units.
Self-healing on a special unit (like commandos and storm troopers) that you normally don't have more than one of is still nice, but neglectable for the sake of clarity in my opinion.
30 Jul 2019, 20:58 PM
#31
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

For compensation, the Soviets simply need to receive faster healing at the Main Base. Otherwise, I don’t see problems, the Forward Headquarters always has two sides of the coin - on the one hand you return to the battle faster, on the other hand the Forward Headquarters is too close and one strike with a double Katyusha and GG
30 Jul 2019, 21:01 PM
#32
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Remove all Forward Retreat Points for all factions!!

30 Jul 2019, 23:05 PM
#33
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


While I would not have remembered all of this, I consciously did not mention most of them to keep things more clear to the readers.
I also thought about skipping the SOV commander FRP, mentioned it in the end as an FRP is probably one of the most impactful abilities compared to a commander healing drop. Therefore someone would surely have brought it up and if it's just for the sake of nagging my general argument.
Also I only mentioned Volksgrenadiere since these are mainline infantry and you usually have 3-4 of them, so they are basically the main reason why you need healing in the first place. Self healing on them maybe does not make healing obsolete, but less necessary by far. Maybe you could even sustain med crates if you only need them for the support units.
Self-healing on a special unit (like commandos and storm troopers) that you normally don't have more than one of is still nice, but neglectable for the sake of clarity in my opinion.


Well you brought the doctrinal tools first.


Blobbing have always existed, it's just that WFA + UKF made it easy. On one hand people complain about blobbing and on the other hand they want more FRPs :D
31 Jul 2019, 06:27 AM
#34
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

Imo it should either be all FRPs or all HTs, but not this mash up we currently have. FRPs are generally better on large maps in 3v3 and 4v4, while HTs may fare better in 1v1 or 2v2 (but even there I see them being rarely used in casts).
Personally I vote for FRPs to keep up the action on larger maps and because 3 (4 with doctrine) out of 5 factions already have FRP implemented.
31 Jul 2019, 16:00 PM
#35
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

For compensation, the Soviets simply need to receive faster healing at the Main Base. Otherwise, I don’t see problems, the Forward Headquarters always has two sides of the coin - on the one hand you return to the battle faster, on the other hand the Forward Headquarters is too close and one strike with a double Katyusha and GG


Ost and Soviets need fast healing both of them.
31 Jul 2019, 16:10 PM
#36
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2



Ost and Soviets need fast healing both of them.


The Soviets still have a higher priority, they have less healing opportunities: the Wehrmacht can build bunkers with reinforcement / healing on the front lines without commander, plus medical supplies in several commanders, plus first-aid kits for pioneers / grenadiers / osttruppen. At the same time, the Soviets have a retreat point in only one Commander who sucks.
31 Jul 2019, 16:45 PM
#37
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



The Soviets still have a higher priority, they have less healing opportunities: the Wehrmacht can build bunkers with reinforcement / healing on the front lines without commander, plus medical supplies in several commanders, plus first-aid kits for pioneers / grenadiers / osttruppen. At the same time, the Soviets have a retreat point in only one Commander who sucks.


Agreed. Would be nice if engineers could drop a medic crate at like vet 1 or something.
31 Jul 2019, 19:27 PM
#38
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



Agreed. Would be nice if engineers could drop a medic crate at like vet 1 or something.


+1 Good idea!


The Soviets have a retreat point in only one Commander who sucks.


Airborne commander is fine, plenty of people use it to good effect. Only thing it really lacks is some early AT option. I'd personally advocate for an elite M1 Bazooka upgrade for the "Airborne" Guards. Also feel the Guards could do with passive camo and demo's, they're currently very costly for what they offer.
31 Jul 2019, 19:55 PM
#39
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2



+1 Good idea!



Airborne commander is fine, plenty of people use it to good effect. Only thing it really lacks is some early AT option. I'd personally advocate for an elite M1 Bazooka upgrade for the "Airborne" Guards. Also feel the Guards could do with passive camo and demo's, they're currently very costly for what they offer.


Besides SVT-40, I do not see anything standing in it, and apparently I am not alone. This commander is practically absent in games, unlike the rest of the commanders who are in each game.
31 Jul 2019, 20:14 PM
#40
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

Airborne commander is fine, plenty of people use it to good effect. Only thing it really lacks is some early AT option. I'd personally advocate for an elite M1 Bazooka upgrade for the "Airborne" Guards. Also feel the Guards could do with passive camo and demo's, they're currently very costly for what they offer.


The main reason why I use Airborne commander is for the FRP itself on larger maps, and rarely on smaller maps when the enemy heavily relies on close range infantry, like assault grenadiers (so I can update penals with ppsh). I do agree that this doctrine could use some earlier AT option tho.
0 user is browsing this thread:

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

718 users are online: 1 member and 717 guests
Gbpirate
0 post in the last 24h
5 posts in the last week
33 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49152
Welcome our newest member, Cummings
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM