Machine Guns

I think either the Vickers or Maxim could use a new ability to separate them from the rest of the HMGs.

They are the two oldest designs in the game, both being pre-WWI designs, so I think their use should reflect that old philosophy.

An early MG tactic was to use them as light artillery, firing in an arc at long ranges to barrage and harass enemy units. This could be done as an ability for either unit that allows them at Vet 1 to fire a “suppressing barrage” that does light AoE damage and suppression in the target area.

Another ability idea could be like the strafing fire ability that the Centaur has. The MG fires a long burst sweeping from side to side damaging and suppressing everything in a cone in front of the gun.

Another active ability? No, god sake. Maxim is unique MG that need to use ability to do mg work, while other mg do it by default. I don't mind it gainst new ability, but first we need find decision about battle stats and preventing spam and after that search new abilities.
From what was said before - IMHO longer set-up time could be used as decision. Increase arc of fire to in-line maxim with other mg's. Because it's very odd that mg with weakest supression have narrow arc. Narrow arc was design from old times when maxim was instasupress platform with fast set-up time. These times are gone and arc of fire need to make normal.

Damn what an excellent idea! We never even thought about this

Dont be a smarta@@, nobody likes a smarta@@.
Its a design decision to leave it like this because the maxim has 6 crew members. They could fix it like they did with the MG42 years ago.
And if, i say if they cant fix this, then they should swap it with a diferent MG. I guess the Soviet Union had more than one MG.

Dont be a smarta@@, nobody likes a smarta@@.
Its a design decision to leave it like this because the maxim has 6 crew members. They could fix it like they did with the MG42 years ago.
And if, i say if they cant fix this, then they should swap it with a diferent MG. I guess the Soviet Union had more than one MG.

Nobody likes utter ignorants either you know....

You have to really never get out from under your rock to not be aware that deathloop is impossible to fix and no new models will ever be in coh2.

Another active ability? No, god sake. Maxim is unique MG that need to use ability to do mg work, while other mg do it by default. I don't mind it gainst new ability, but first we need find decision about battle stats and preventing spam and after that search new abilities.
From what was said before - IMHO longer set-up time could be used as decision. Increase arc of fire to in-line maxim with other mg's. Because it's very odd that mg with weakest supression have narrow arc. Narrow arc was design from old times when maxim was instasupress platform with fast set-up time. These times are gone and arc of fire need to make normal.

Adding a new ability would require the removal of the old ability, and thus it would require the reason for having the old ability removed too.

I think a new utility ability for either of them or both of them would male them more fun and viable, assuming that the Maxim received some slight buffs as well.

The utility barrage MG ability stems from the Zis gun’s barrage ability. When compared to the PaK40, the Zis-3 is just not quite as good, but makes up for it by having a dual role ability that can allow it to support against infantry targets, while the more specialized PaK40 has better stats and an ability that helps it fight tanks even better.

In keeping with this idea that Soviet units should be generalists or have dual role abilities, I think the Maxim should gain such an ability. Maybe it could be an anti vehicle slow down ability or blind ability like button. Maybe it could be an AoE damage ability like the Centaur’s. Maybe it could be an indirect barrage ability that causes damage and suppression in an area that is out of its normal firing range and is targeted like the Zis barrage.

But yes, it also needs a slight buff to suppression and/or faster pack up time but with its still current set up time.

I'd trade the Maxim's fast setup and teardown in a heartbeat for suppression worth a damn.

I only bother using the DHSK when I play Soviet.

Not a lot of people know but Mg34 suppresses faster than the 42 by just a little.

...but it shoots marshmallow bullets. If I could've voted more than one, it would've got my second vote. I voted Vickers just because of the way that I use them, in support of infantry to minimize manpower bleed. The Vickers has terrible suppression and just okay damage, at least the maxim kills stuff. The death loop, narrow firing arc, and lack of suppression are annoying but somewhat manageable. Yes, it does suppress slightly faster than the MG42, but out of all the MG's, I buy the MG34 the least.

The Vickers has terrible suppression and just okay damage, at least the maxim kills stuff.

The Vickers has decent suppression and basically identical DPS compared to the Maxim. Both HMGs are pretty much identical to the HMG 42 in terms of raw DPS. Though the Vickers could use a tiny bit more suppression. The reason the Maxim deals slightly more damage is because the suppression damage reduction on enemy squad kicks in later because it deals less suppression. If the suppression on the Vickers/Maxim were to go up, their effective DPS would go down.

Nobody likes utter ignorants either you know....

You have to really never get out from under your rock to not be aware that deathloop is impossible to fix and no new models will ever be in coh2.

Thanks for that. You of all people defending a smarta@@.

Start reading:
I play and follow COH since 2006, since the first day. So maybe i know stuff that maybe you never seen or heard before, so don’t be dogmatic.
I am 1000 % sure that i read a post in this forum from a developer that said that they could fix it but… they will not because of what i wrote in my earlier post and some other details.

And say for argument sake that this is not true, they still could have fixed this by changing the MG
YEARS AGO. Yeah, maybe now it’s too late for that but i don’t give a shit and i want to express my disappointment towards them.
And one last thing, don’t believe everything that the developers say to us, sometimes it’s easier to tell a small lie to cover something else (no time, no money, no eagerness to change something).

Adding a new ability would require the removal of the old ability, and thus it would require the reason for having the old ability removed too.

I think a new utility ability for either of them or both of them would male them more fun and viable, assuming that the Maxim received some slight buffs as well.

In keeping with this idea that Soviet units should be generalists or have dual role abilities, I think the Maxim should gain such an ability. Maybe it could be an anti vehicle slow down ability or blind ability like button. Maybe it could be an AoE damage ability like the Centaur’s. Maybe it could be an indirect barrage ability that causes damage and suppression in an area that is out of its normal firing range and is targeted like the Zis barrage.

I just afraid that maxim will be good only when you use ability. Because right now, if you turn on supression fire ability - maxim is ok. But if don't - trash. No one want babysitting mg that work only with active ability.
I could suggest one option:
Make 2 modes for maxim:
1) Offensive style - narrow arc, weak suppresion, normal set-up time, good damage. Work as offensive tool - analogue of ost mg ap bullets.
2) Defensive style - wide arc, slow set up time, good supression but very weak damage. Work as area denial tool.
Active ability i prefer like soviet paratroopers have - decrease movement speed and accuracy of enemy units in choosen area.

The Vickers has decent suppression and basically identical DPS compared to the Maxim. Both HMGs are pretty much identical to the HMG 42 in terms of raw DPS. Though the Vickers could use a tiny bit more suppression. The reason the Maxim deals slightly more damage is because the suppression damage reduction on enemy squad kicks in later because it deals less suppression. If the suppression on the Vickers/Maxim were to go up, their effective DPS would go down.

In the few times that I've played brits and bought a Vickers, every time that I put it in a house across from a MG42, it (the Vickers) had to retreat. Even if the stats say that it has similar DPS to the MG42, it still doesn't seem like it.

I just afraid that maxim will be good only when you use ability. Because right now, if you turn on supression fire ability - maxim is ok. But if don't - trash. No one want babysitting mg that work only with active ability.

Precisely why it’s ability should offer some sort of utility, not just a buff to its base stats.

Buff it’s burst length, so it is more likely to fire a long burst that will suppress more consistently, but drop it’s long range accuracy slightly so it’s less likely to drop models at long range, but will still have really good damage at closer ranges. Make it’s tear down time much faster so it will “death loop” less often.

Now it should be a good suppression platform at longer ranges, but not do too much damage.

With the suppression being better, you can remove the suppressing fire ability and replace it with a new ability. A few ideas I have are listed below.

“Button” acts just like Guards DP-28 button ability. The MG sprays a long burst at the target vehicles vision slits, slowing and blinding the unit, but deals no damage to the target and no suppression to nearby infantry. This mirrors the Zis guns barrage so the AT gun has some anti infantry utility and the MG has some anti tank utility.

“Traversing Fire” starts by reloading the gun, and then fires a long continuous burst while the gun sweeps from side to side, covering the entirety of its arc dealing damage to all units in the arc. This ability would cause only moderate suppression, but more damage to units that don’t leave the arc fast. This ability would also damage friendly units in the arc, making it dangerous to use in some situations. The ability would also deal significantly reduced damage to units in heavy cover or in garrison cover, further preventing it from being abused against units in cover. The ability should punish players that attempt to rush up to an MG team and throw smoke to bypass the suppression allowing the Maxim to shoot through the smoke or light cover and deny an area to all players for a few seconds dealing heavy damage to anyone who doesn’t leave the arc.

What if the Maxim had better suppression out to mid range?

It wouldn't be able to lock down a field like an MG42, but it would at least be able to punish a frontal rush against it without an ability.

half of the issues with maxim have to do with VGs incendiary grenade.

half of the issues with maxim have to do with VGs incendiary grenade.

Maybe just drastically increase medium range supression? That fully solve problem with nading. On far distance maxim will be have weaker suppresion, but medium and short very high. It make it, some sort of supression shotgun. Not good on distance, but very good on closer. It also prevent spamming, because you couldn't denial big areas of map with such mechanic.

Both Maxim and MG34 needs buff.

Both bad at their job for their price.

Though I believe for SU team weapons all to do better is through decreasing their crew to 4 or 5 man. If they want a performance increase!

MG34 is, I do not know why but it is simply plain bad. Fails on many occasions to suppress. Feels like I am just using Maxim but sometimes worse. Somtimes it does fine but it is just not consistent. Damage is shit, nothing to compensate overall.

MG34 and Maxim are definitely the worst MGs.

Something needs improvements.

Maybe just drastically increase medium range supression? That fully solve problem with nading. On far distance maxim will be have weaker suppresion, but medium and short very high. It make it, some sort of supression shotgun. Not good on distance, but very good on closer. It also prevent spamming, because you couldn't denial big areas of map with such mechanic.

Or simply nerf the incendiary grenade (changes could include sorter range, lower damage but damage "all in hold" for DOT) or replace the grenade with fragmentation grenade and move incendiary grenade to SP and doctrinal infatry.

Thanks for that. You of all people defending a smarta@@.

Start reading:
I play and follow COH since 2006, since the first day. So maybe i know stuff that maybe you never seen or heard before, so don’t be dogmatic.
I am 1000 % sure that i read a post in this forum from a developer that said that they could fix it but… they will not because of what i wrote in my earlier post and some other details.

And say for argument sake that this is not true, they still could have fixed this by changing the MG
YEARS AGO. Yeah, maybe now it’s too late for that but i don’t give a shit and i want to express my disappointment towards them.
And one last thing, don’t believe everything that the developers say to us, sometimes it’s easier to tell a small lie to cover something else (no time, no money, no eagerness to change something).

You are still wrong.

The argument was: the maxim is strong and the deathloop and 6 man crew kinda balances it out.
Different devs and balance team have come and go and the maxim deathloop isn't something that can be fixed.
We have users who had helped fixed bugs and issues with the game and they said they can't be fixed.

There's no big conspiracy here. There were changes implemented in order to "mitigate" the deathloop but that's just a mechanic working as intended with poor gameplay consequences. There's no way to give it teleporting german technology so the only thing that can be done is reduce the target prioritization of the guy operating the weapon.

I might be missing something around but all wheel based support weapons suffer the same thing.

Finally: change the MG to what? We barely got new content and you expect for them to create new models and voicing from thing air?

When you see that people voted for the MG42 to be buffed.

When you see that people voted for the MG42 to be buffed.

SIR! I SAID IT, SIR!!