Replace Relief Infantry by Ostruppen？

Lost 10 infantry means about 300 manpower and 90 ammo for 2 squad Ostruppen（when ability fully worked），although Soviet Relief Conscript need 120 ammo ,but Soviet has larger squad size and cheaper Infantry,and Cons can refinement other squad.
I think use call-in Ostruppen replace Relief Infantry will be better,at least you can use Ostruppen immediately when you need some meat shields

One can simply redesign the ability. It could now provide units that can merge but not reinforce so that one can continue his fighting.

Lost 10 infantry means about 300 manpower and 90 ammo for 2 squad Ostruppen（when ability fully worked），although Soviet Relief Conscript need 120 ammo ,but Soviet has larger squad size and cheaper Infantry,and Cons can refinement other squad.
I think use call-in Ostruppen replace Relief Infantry will be better,at least you can use Ostruppen immediately when you need some meat shields

looks like you use it wrong. No need to lose 10 germans man. Just lose 5.
1. Lose 5 brave german soldiers
2. Get 1-st osttrupen squad
3. Lose 5 osttrupens and get 2-nd osttrupen squad
4. Reinforce osttrupens
5. Turn on ability again and lost 10 osttrupen (try not to lose full squad)
6. Get 2 new squads of osttrupens
7. Reinforce osttrupens
8. Trade every 90 ammo on 2 fresh osttrupens squads. If you have popcap, just kill most wounded osttrupens.
...
PROFIT!!!

From time when you get 2-nd squad and reinforce 1-st, you could lose all osttrupens and get new. In teamgames if you have good ammo income you could have endless waves of osttrupens and even if you lose them all, you don't lost potential to getting new osttrupens squads.

looks like you use it wrong. No need to lose 10 germans man. Just lose 5.
1. Lose 5 brave german soldiers
2. Get 1-st osttrupen squad
3. Lose 5 osttrupens and get 2-nd osttrupen squad
4. Reinforce osttrupens
5. Turn on ability again and lost 10 osttrupen (try not to lose full squad)
6. Get 2 new squads of osttrupens
7. Reinforce osttrupens
8. Trade every 90 ammo on 2 fresh osttrupens squads. If you have popcap, just kill most wounded osttrupens.
...
PROFIT!!!

From time when you get 2-nd squad and reinforce 1-st, you could lose all osttrupens and get new. In teamgames if you have good ammo income you could have endless waves of osttrupens and even if you lose them all, you don't lost potential to getting new osttrupens squads.

The problem usually isn't to get new squads, they are pretty cheap as they only cost munitions and the mp can be used to reinforced other squads. The problem lies in the fact that they are rather weak squads that have some slight at capability if you tech at nades for cons or unlocked the faust for osttruppen, but against other infantry squads (at that timing elite infantry squads might already have decent veterancy) they usually just bleed or get wiped.

The problem usually isn't to get new squads, they are pretty cheap as they only cost munitions and the mp can be used to reinforced other squads. The problem lies in the fact that they are rather weak squads that have some slight at capability if you tech at nades for cons or unlocked the faust for osttruppen, but against other infantry squads (at that timing elite infantry squads might already have decent veterancy) they usually just bleed or get wiped.

Osttrupens using only for team weapons and point capping. Just build 2-3 mg-42, 1-2 mortars, 1-2 paks, 1 halftrack(optional, but very usefull). Then start exploit this ability. All startegy builds around powerfull german team weapons. It's just MP saving strategy.

Osttrupens using only for team weapons and point capping. Just build 2-3 mg-42, 1-2 mortars, 1-2 paks, 1 halftrack(optional, but very usefull). Then start exploit this ability. All startegy builds around powerfull german team weapons. It's just MP saving strategy.

Osttruppen have higher received accuracyand less sight range then pioneers - which i prefer for teamweapons (especially HMGs). That build doesn't sound like it could work on my elo - you lack any faust platforms and the 251 without flamers can't support the build that good in offensive operations. Regular Osttruppen from CP 0 ave their uses if you just need a meatshield or want a capping squad more for your sniper openings or to rush 251s with flamer faster on urban maps.

I think the ability (or better both) could use a rework or replacement, but 0 CP Ostrruppen would make some commanders to strong.

you could just turn it into straight up passive that losing certain ammount units gives you osttruppen squads

Perhaps use the Ostruppen Reserves ability from Mobile Defence? That'd serve the same purpose (to give you Ostruppen squads in the mid game to bolster your ranks) without the daft 'suicide your units' mechanic.

SOV could have a similar ability to replace Rapid Conscription that calls in two SVT Conscript squads.

you could just turn it into straight up passive that losing certain ammount units gives you osttruppen squads

Do I even have to start explaining how batshit insanely op infinite free units are?

I agree the ability should be replaced, but not with 0 CP Osttruppen.

Suggestion:
- Turn Osttruppen Reserves into AT Osttruppen.
- AT Osttruppen are armed with 2 Panzerbuchse AT rifles.
- Cost 280 MP at 2 CP.
- Possible other abilities like sandbags/mines or something unique like flare mines that stun enemy vehicles.

Fits the mobile defense doctrine and makes the doctrine a bit more interesting after the Puma nerf.

I'm really interested in a sort of cheap Osttruppen reinforce squad with which you can use human wave tactics and merge.

I like how the "Relief Infantry" functions since it is rather unique. Changing into regular, spawning Ostruppen will not make that interesting.

I like the concept behind "Relief Infantry" and I believe it should stay that way.

I mean it is not popular since many people decide that its it not worth the investment. Do not get me wrong but it is quite useful.

At least it gives Osteehr an opportunity to survive better against indirect fire through some compensation!

Still, these Osttruppen arn't able to build sandbags or wire. Even they are good for team-weapons. Also they only have one weapon-slot.

Still, these Osttruppen arn't able to build sandbags or wire. Even they are good for team-weapons. Also they only have one weapon-slot.

You are right. I can not think of another unit that has 1 ability only.

Maybe sandbags, or barbed wire would be a nice addition!

I was thinking of give Osttruppen a smaller target sice (same of Cons), if they arn't moving. So e.g. team-weapons and their crew wouldn't be that bad.

Maybe increase costs to 210mp for that buff.


Edit: Also make sand-bags and wire non-doc for Osttruppen.

So we can also change the trench ability in Osttruppen commander, change it to something useful like hull-down etc.

That would be nice.

You are right. I can not think of another unit that has 1 ability only.

Maybe sandbags, or barbed wire would be a nice addition!

Rangers (pls bubbf)

Rangers (pls bubbf)

they get super zook

Edit: Also make sand-bags and wire non-doc for Osttruppen.

So we can also change the trench ability in Osttruppen commander, change it to something useful like hull-down etc.

Agree.

Actually, I think all baseline infantry units and engineer units should be able to build sandbags. Engineer units should be able to build sandbags, barbed wire and tank traps. Digging in is just a staple of real infantry tactics. Literally all soldiers (and in my case Marines) know this.

“The organization of the ground, or the construction of the defense, begins as soon as individual members of the squad have been assigned sectors of fire. It contains seven tasks. They can be remembered using the acronym SAFE SOC, S-security, A-automatic weapons/avenues of approach, F-fields of fire, E-entrench, S-supplementary and alternate positions, O-obstacles, C-camouflage/continuing actions. These are the actions that we take in order to properly conduct the defense.”

Entrenching is the fourth most important thing to do once taking a position only after security, automatic weapons/ avenues of approach and fields of fire, and in CoH, your squads do all three of these for you! (Except team weapons, who you can place manually, but even they don’t need to be emplaced as strictly as in real life, since there is no friendly fire to consider.)

In a more game oriented sense, digging in allows positional play to be more important. The cover system is what makes CoH unique, so why shouldn’t it be emphasized more? If infantry could dig in they’d be less vulnerable to LMG blobs just running up over open ground and out shooting them.

Making infantry units able to dig in with basic sandbags helps diversify infantry play by making weaker units stronger if they have time to prepare positions. It also makes players choose between pushing farther and trying to cap up more territory when the enemy retreats, or to dig in and try to fight a decisive defensive action from prepared positions.