German flexibility vs Soviet flexibility

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2013, 22:38 PMBlovski

I basically agree but I'd note that Ostruppen's scout car counter is somewhat stronger because you'll have twice as many units on the field (hence twice as many fausts/nades) as you would with either Grenadiers or Conscripts.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2013, 23:10 PMJinseual

true, but ostruppen dies faster, it would also depends on the positioning which may not work since they die really quickly and they don't have oorah. so i still think that catching a scout car is more difficult with ostruppen than it is with conscripts.

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2013, 00:26 AMHorseloverFat

OP is biased. Soviet units are not analogue to German.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2013, 22:28 PMJinseual

it doesn't make a difference if he answers. you will just ignore it and repeat the same thing over and over again. is closing your ears another skill you learn from school?

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2013, 01:43 AMCon!

The problem with soviets currently is that con spam is the only effective build they can do at the highest level. This is countered by ostruppen tech builds (haven't played any since the patch but they where last patch) and assgrens; as well as just good German play.

At the end of the day con spam is completely one dimensional and you pretty much know what is coming and it is just a race to see who gets tanks first. soviets can mix in a doctrinal unit like guards, shocks, 120mm instead of getting a 5th squad, but really getting anything out of your buildings before hitting t3 make any sense compared to the above options because it is likely to be countered as soon as it hits the field, and even if it isn't countered. Rarely does it have much more impact then adding another con squad or geting a doctianl unit instead.

Make it so Germans and soviets don't both basically hit the same timing if they go four units tech or make it easier to get tech buildings (T1 and T2) before 4 cons for soviets and soviets will be fine.

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2013, 01:43 AMCon!

The problem with soviets currently is that con spam is the only effective build they can do at the highest level. This is countered by ostruppen tech builds (haven't played any since the patch but they where last patch) and assgrens; as well as just good German play.

At the end of the day con spam is completely one dimensional and you pretty much know what is coming and it is just a race to see who gets tanks first. soviets can mix in a doctrinal unit like guards, shocks, 120mm instead of getting a 5th squad, but really getting anything out of your buildings before hitting t3 make any sense compared to the above options because it is likely to be countered as soon as it hits the field, and even if it isn't countered. Rarely does it have much more impact then adding another con squad or geting a doctianl unit instead.

Make it so Germans and soviets don't both basically hit the same timing if they go four units tech or make it easier to get tech buildings (T1 and T2) before 4 cons for soviets and soviets will be fine.

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2013, 06:23 AMbigchunk1

Yeah I think this is the worst part of playing soviet. The game only gets interesting after the first 3 or so minutes when you choose t1 or t2. It's not a balance concern for me as much as one of entertainment.

Making t1 or t2 come sooner will introduce balance issues which will need to be corrected, but overall I think the game will be better for it.

Other than that I don't really have any issues with going soviet.

@OP you would have saved a lot of confusion if you didn't talk about late game units in your post.

pre 20/08 patch
67.6	69.4	68.0	60.1
70.9	71.2	75.0	75.1

pre 10/09 patch
67	68.8	67.5	60.2
71.9	72.6 	76.2	76.2

12/09
67.1 	68.9	67.5	60.3
72.2	72.6 	76.1 	76.2

16/09
67.3	68.8	67.7 	60.3
72.1 	72.8	76.2 	76.4

24/09
67.8	68.9	68.1 	60.6
72.1 	72.8 	76.7 	76.4

26/09
67.7 	69.6 	67.8 	60.7
72.5 	72.9	76.6 	76.5

02/10
67.6 	69.3 	67.5 	60.4
72.1 	73.1 	76.4 	76.6

10/10
67.4	69.2 	68.0	60.5
72.4	72.9	75.8	76.7

15/10
67.4	69.4	67.8	61.2
72.2 	73.1 	76.0	77.0

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2013, 06:34 AMUGBEAR

Panther rapes every tank, Tiger rapes every tank , T-34/76 loss to a PZIV horrifically, T-34/85 which cost 760MP/260FU is individually inferior to a PZIV, and laughably out gun by every german tank.

This Retarded tank balance lasts from alpha to current stage, I'm already doubting their efficiency to balancing the game since open beta.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2013, 07:33 AMMoerserKarL

yogi bear this is ridiculous and pls stop whining. They buffed the T-34/76 a lot,the russian tanks are kinda spammable and they increased the cost for ost tanks(MP)

2 T-34/76 can rape a PZIV in the front, and 3 T-34/76 can take down a Panther tank with no losses

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2013, 07:43 AMUGBEAR

please stop trolling, seriously,

They reduce the PZIV cost from previous patch, and they reduce the fuel cost of the Panther with a rise in Man power, please don't be such cherry picking. German-only player please stop calling other ridiculous.

PZIV finishing off a T-34/76: (640/160)*5.825/(95.6522%)=24.3591sec

T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV: (640/120)*4.875/(50%)=52sec

2*T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV=52/2=26sec

Panther finishing off a T-34/76: (640/160)*6.575/(100%)=26.3sec

T-34/76 finishing off a Panther: (960/120)*4.875/(80/270)=131.625sec

3*T-34/76 finishing off a Panther: 131.625/3=43.875sec

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2013, 07:43 AMUGBEAR

PZIV finishing off a T-34/76: (640/160)*5.825/(95.6522%)=24.3591sec

T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV: (640/120)*4.875/(50%)=52sec

2*T-34/76 finishing off a PZIV=52/2=26sec


Panther finishing off a T-34/76: (640/160)*6.575/(100%)=26.3sec

T-34/76 finishing off a Panther: (960/120)*4.875/(80/270)=131.625sec

3*T-34/76 finishing off a Panther: 131.625/3=43.875sec

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2013, 04:19 AMsir muffin

The units that the soviet's can build VERY early game:

Conscripts: (harassing light infantry and a way to reinforce heavier troops in the field, bad against other infantry, tanks, light vehicles

Combat Engineers: (4 man squad armed with rifles, can plant demos and place mines, lose against all German units bar pioneers at long range, same price as conscripts.)

__________________________________________________________________________________________
The units that the Germans can build VERY early game:

Grenadiers: (infantry deigned to counter other infantry, can be upgraded with MG42's to kill a conscript a second, same price as conscripts, and will win in 1v1 combat against them with moderate to no losses)
MG42: (instapins infantry out of cover, forcing them to retreat same price as grens and can only be tackled with flanks)
German Mortar: (fast firing, accurate, and kills 3-4 squad members on a successful hit, same price as grens)
German Sniper: (armor shrugs off all shots apart from really lucky hits, 1 hit kills all infantry)
Osttruppen: (weak infantry with the ability to kill scout cars with ease, loses against all other infantry bar engineer units
Assault Grens (fast firing, fast moving, shock troops designed to get early map control with ease, wins against all soviet units bar DP upgraded guards, and shock troops.)

Look me in the eyes and tell me the germans don't have a clear, undisputed advantage in 1v1.


http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198016893993
Proof i'm not a soviet fanboy.
i'm just a concerned player that has gone down almost 1000 ladder positions since these last few updates on the soviet side.


EDIT: i listed every unit in COH2, people thought that was too much, shorted it to early game units to make my point heard better

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2013, 04:19 AMsir muffin

The units that the soviet's can build VERY early game:

Conscripts: (harassing light infantry and a way to reinforce heavier troops in the field, bad against other infantry, tanks, light vehicles

Combat Engineers: (4 man squad armed with rifles, can plant demos and place mines, lose against all German units bar pioneers at long range, same price as conscripts.)

__________________________________________________________________________________________
The units that the Germans can build VERY early game:

Grenadiers: (infantry deigned to counter other infantry, can be upgraded with MG42's to kill a conscript a second, same price as conscripts, and will win in 1v1 combat against them with moderate to no losses)
MG42: (instapins infantry out of cover, forcing them to retreat same price as grens and can only be tackled with flanks)
German Mortar: (fast firing, accurate, and kills 3-4 squad members on a successful hit, same price as grens)
German Sniper: (armor shrugs off all shots apart from really lucky hits, 1 hit kills all infantry)
Osttruppen: (weak infantry with the ability to kill scout cars with ease, loses against all other infantry bar engineer units
Assault Grens (fast firing, fast moving, shock troops designed to get early map control with ease, wins against all soviet units bar DP upgraded guards, and shock troops.)

Look me in the eyes and tell me the germans don't have a clear, undisputed advantage in 1v1.


http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198016893993
Proof i'm not a soviet fanboy.
i'm just a concerned player that has gone down almost 1000 ladder positions since these last few updates on the soviet side.


EDIT: i listed every unit in COH2, people thought that was too much, shorted it to early game units to make my point heard better