M36 Jackson

I just want to throw out that the Jackson has a faster reload then the panzer 4 by about 1 second-with equal damage and HP even if the panzer 4 gets in close without taking a hit the Jackson still has better than a coin toss chance of winning. Oh and it has a higher rate of fire than the StuG as well.

Maybe give it a big nerf to turret rotation, or possibly reload. Both the other allied TDs have big drawbacks which make them counterable.

I just want to throw out that the Jackson has a faster reload then the panzer 4 by about 1 second-with equal damage and HP even if the panzer 4 gets in close without taking a hit the Jackson still has better than a coin toss chance of winning. Oh and it has a higher rate of fire than the StuG as well.

Maybe give it a big nerf to turret rotation, or possibly reload. Both the other allied TDs have big drawbacks which make them counterable.

Now add that 1,62 second to jackson which you ignored(wind up and wind down).

How I think about the TD's are like this!

SU SU85 for 120 fuel is very good and reliable. It always seems to penetrate most tanks and has good DPS for its role. No turrent which is its only main downside. It is also accurate on the move but no as much in comparison to Jackson I believe.

USF M36 Jackson costs around 140-150 I believe. It is the best I would say since USF can recover very fast with their vehicles. Has the range and the best part, it has the best moving accuracy making this deadly. Fast too.

UKF Firefly costs 155 fuel I believe. It has the slowest fire of them and the highest damage being 240 but its DPS in comparison is lower. I think why it is like as it currently is, might be because of their upgrade to rockets. That significantly stuns and damage enemy vehicles. Brits have access to as well strong, heavy vehicles. Might explain why its worse in comparison to the rest because of this fact!

I mean if you talk about Axis, their TDs, are not as significant a role as Allies. Since their range is all slightly shorter than Allies TDs. Less penetration also but enough to take on most but the heavy. That is why Panther is the only shot they really have. Even then, they all require Panther to suit in other situations that many allied infantry does better on AI areas. Panthers does help support for Axis overall weaker scaled infantry units mid-late game.

Now add that 1,62 second to jackson which you ignored(wind up and wind down).

You're right, my bad.

That puts the jacksons time between shots over six seconds- a substantial disadvantage to the panzer 4 and even more so the StuG. Couple the panzer 4s superior armor and blitz for safer dives, its pretty clear that the panzer 4 has a fairly sizable advantage in anything other than open field over the jackson -and at a cheaper price point for ostheer too.
Maybe the Jackson could use a cost reduction to more closely match the axis tank destroyers?

You're right, my bad.

That puts the jacksons time between shots over six seconds- a substantial disadvantage to the panzer 4 and even more so the StuG. Couple the panzer 4s superior armor and blitz for safer dives, its pretty clear that the panzer 4 has a fairly sizable advantage in anything other than open field over the jackson -and at a cheaper price point for ostheer too.
Maybe the Jackson could use a cost reduction to more closely match the axis tank destroyers?

Remember soldier! You are not supposed to trade blows with p4! Use superior range of m36 and kill the beast. If it dives it is your duty to have At nearby and a friendly infantry unit with snares, stachels, bazookas and other war materiel from Uncle Sam. Mines are also wlcome as an invitation treat for the p4 'diver'. Remember soldier! Jankees pierce kraut krupsteal coffins from afar! Dismiss!

How I think about the TD's are like this!

SU SU85 for 120 fuel is very good and reliable. It always seems to penetrate most tanks and has good DPS for its role. No turrent which is its only main downside. It is also accurate on the move but no as much in comparison to Jackson I believe.

USF M36 Jackson costs around 140-150 I believe. It is the best I would say since USF can recover very fast with their vehicles. Has the range and the best part, it has the best moving accuracy making this deadly. Fast too.

UKF Firefly costs 155 fuel I believe. It has the slowest fire of them and the highest damage being 240 but its DPS in comparison is lower. I think why it is like as it currently is, might be because of their upgrade to rockets. That significantly stuns and damage enemy vehicles. Brits have access to as well strong, heavy vehicles. Might explain why its worse in comparison to the rest because of this fact!

I mean if you talk about Axis, their TDs, are not as significant a role as Allies. Since their range is all slightly shorter than Allies TDs. Less penetration also but enough to take on most but the heavy. That is why Panther is the only shot they really have. Even then, they all require Panther to suit in other situations that many allied infantry does better on AI areas. Panthers does help support for Axis overall weaker scaled infantry units mid-late game.

Su85 is 130F, its moving accuracy is the 0.5, same as literally every other tank in the game except the valentine, churchill, and all of USF.

Jackson 140F, jackson also OP imo.

155F is correct. FF damage is only 200 until vet 3 where it gets 240 per shot. The firefly is by no means bad, it just actually has drawbacks unlike the jackson. Its cost should honestly be swapped with the jackson in its current state.

JP4 has 60 range, matches allied TDs.

Fixed some stats for you

Su85 is 130F, its moving accuracy is the 0.5, same as literally every other tank in the game except the valentine, churchill, and all of USF.

Jackson 140F, jackson also OP imo.

155F is correct. FF damage is only 200 until vet 3 where it gets 240 per shot. The firefly is by no means bad, it just actually has drawbacks unlike the jackson. Its cost should honestly be swapped with the jackson in its current state.

JP4 has 60 range, matches allied TDs.

Fixed some stats for you

Thanks. I appreciate it!

Now add that 1,62 second to jackson which you ignored(wind up and wind down).

p4 still prob lose thanks to accuracy on the move, better overall acc and the 130 armor on the m 36 so p4 does not have 100 % chance to pen

LOL you are all complaining and talking about nerfing literally the ONLY effective unit USF has. It is seriously the ONLY USF unit that is both good at it's job and reasonably priced.

IMO jackson should just get an RoF nerf if it needs a nerf. That way it stays consistent against heavies and still benefits from range and speed but won't be quite as effective all around will encourage backing it with other at sources.

LOL you are all complaining and talking about nerfing literally the ONLY effective unit USF has. It is seriously the ONLY USF unit that is both good at it's job and reasonably priced.

sherman, rifle, mortar, m8, etc u just don't play the game

LOL you are all complaining and talking about nerfing literally the ONLY effective unit USF has. It is seriously the ONLY USF unit that is both good at it's job and reasonably priced.

Tif your claims were accurate, that would mean jacksons MUST receive a nerf. Because of 2 simple reasons:
-Unit and strategy variety.
-Faction over perform reliant only on a single unit.

But sadly you are as much 50% correct. Since USF team weapons, Scotts and riflemen are very effective too, at least in a stable lategame situation

sherman, rifle, mortar, m8, etc u just don't play the game

They might play, but obviously not well and need an EZ mode TD to be able to do everything and be super forgiving so they can stand half a chance without ever being able to get the fuel.

The thing about Jacksons is that they're rendered quite useless by units that cost 0f.

The thing about Jacksons is that they're rendered quite useless by units that cost 0f.

Unless they utilize their fantastic mobility and ignore all of their own infantry sure.
Technically the elefant can be rendered completely useless by a pair of guards rifles) I have done it) but the player actually letting it happen has to be brain dead.
The Jackson literally lacks any unique weakness (hurr durr it can't do shit against infantry!) which is a massive balance issue when you consider the stack of unique advantages it has.

Tif your claims were accurate, that would mean jacksons MUST receive a nerf. Because of 2 simple reasons:
-Unit and strategy variety.
-Faction over perform reliant only on a single unit.

But sadly you are as much 50% correct. Since USF team weapons, Scotts and riflemen are very effective too, at least in a stable lategame situation

You can't have unit variety when your faction only has a single stock TD in your rooster.
Either it's good at it's job, killing enemy tanks, or it isn't.

The Jackson literally lacks any unique weakness (hurr durr it can't do shit against infantry!) which is a massive balance issue when you consider the stack of unique advantages it has.

Having 0 dps vs infantry actually is a weakness. The panther's coaxial and mounted MG can do lots of damage vs squads if the panther is close.

The Jackson also cannot self spot like the SU85, has no stun shot like firefly, stug or elefant and it has paper armor that gets penned by every anti tank projectile. Not to mention that a Jackson has 0 advantage over TDs like JP4 or SU85 on our beloved thin MOBA style 2-4 lane camp maps.

Having 0 dps vs infantry actually is a weakness. The panther's coaxial and mounted MG can do lots of damage vs squads if the panther is close.

The Jackson also cannot self spot like the SU85, has no stun shot like firefly, stug or elefant and it has paper armor that gets penned by every anti tank projectile. Not to mention that a Jackson has 0 advantage over TDs like JP4 or SU85 on our beloved thin MOBA style 2-4 lane camp maps.

So in an unsupported vaccum the Jackson has flaws. OK I get that. Try supporting it.

Its turret and speed negate all the disadvantages of any other TD (aside from the single, default, no AI that they all have) it can chase and it can fire while fleeing. And it CAN flee.
You are not arguing in good faith if you are claiming that the turret isn't a giant advantage. Being able to move around an AT gun while still popping shots on a target is incredibly powerful.

You can't have unit variety when your faction only has a single stock TD in your rooster.
Either it's good at it's job, killing enemy tanks, or it isn't.

OST faction get to have only a single stock casemate TD, because panthers are more like a heavy tank with good AT rather a heavy TD.
If panthers were Heavy TDs as jacksons are, they could reliably destroy another heavies like KVs, Churchs, IS2, ISU, Comets.
*Spoiler alert: Panthers cant cost effectively win against those heavies, as we all know, they trade hits as much and can loose miserably when the allied player has 3 functional neurons, axis can only spam panthers to get an advantage. So it cant be considered a heavy TD. At most an hybrid of heavy+medium TD

USF also have ATG, handheld zooks and some doctrinal variations to compensate AT power, like OST does with Elephant and OKW with JT.

And before people get their pitchforks and start a riot, soviet conscript dont have stock weapon upgrades and thats ok, now usf has great doctrinal AT units but they never appear in the discussion of jackOPns. GG then...