Update Still not out? When?

Feel free to elaborate if you disagree, but I believe the general sentiment within the wider community is that the current game balance is the best it's ever been.

Ok that imo is taking thing a bit too far.

I wonder if you would make the same comment or it would change the contribution of the MOD a couple a patches ago when Overwatch and Reckon where broken.

Part of the process of improving is to acknowledge mistakes that have been made.

Bottom line here is that there people who use their time to improve the game and we should all support them even when we disagree since we have a common goal. To improve the game.

Feel free to elaborate if you disagree, but I believe the general sentiment within the wider community is that the current game balance is the best it's ever been .

Community exists outside of top streamers and 1v1 players so...no.
not saying i dont appreciate the effort and using your own time for it

Ok that imo is taking thing a bit too far.

I wonder if you would make the same comment or it would change the contribution of the MOD a couple a patches ago when Overwatch and Reckon where broken.

Part of the process of improving is to acknowledge mistakes that have been made.

I said it's the best it's ever been, as in better than what it has been for the last couple of years, not that it's perfect. Or would you argue that the general state of balance was better back when Relic released WFA and UKF armies?

I said it's the best it's ever been, as in better than what it has been for the last couple of years, not that it's perfect. Or would you argue that the general state of balance was better back when Relic released WFA and UKF armies?

I would argue that it is irrelevant.

1) Balance is only one aspect of the game, else we could make all faction identical with only different skins and call it day.

2) As I pointed out the number of bug fixes alone speaks volumes.

3) I personally fully support people who trying to improve them game even when I disagree with them. When I post my comment its because I am trying to help not because I want to prove them wrong.

Community exists outside of top streamers and 1v1 players so...no.
not saying i dont appreciate the effort and using your own time for it

I personally put new content above balance. Balance - does not exist, it has always been a game for six years, but it is still unbalanced and has become more boring because of the balance: many of the mechanics have been removed. New content is real, it is seen immediately and it forces you to return to the game. If Relic was developing new commanders and global changes, then this would be a lot more fun and incentive to play, after all Relic would in any case make new content of higher quality, than modders.

GAASIF

+1 for Ross Scott

It is true that the community has done the patches for the last 3 or so years. Brits and half of WFA was outsourced to a different dev team. Thats why the expansion armies have a different kind of style compared to soviets/ost, and different animations (that are kinda broken anyways). Relic main moved onto DOW3 pretty soon after CoH2 released.

I personally put new content above balance. Balance - does not exist, it has always been a game for six years, but it is still unbalanced and has become more boring because of the balance

I also do agree that the "balance" has gotten out of hand. Removing content, instead of fixing said content (squadai) is lazy and should always be avoided.
To everybody who thinks changing around stats and balancing things is hard; Its not. The attributes are actually quite easy to change and add onto, if you know what you're doing. SCAR, and under-the-hood changes are the hard ones to make, and the team cant even make those changes anyway, due to the restricted mod tools.

+1 for Ross Scott

It is true that the community has done the patches for the last 3 or so years. Brits and half of WFA was outsourced to a different dev team. Thats why the expansion armies have a different kind of style compared to soviets/ost, and different animations (that are kinda broken anyways). Relic main moved onto DOW3 pretty soon after CoH2 released.

I also do agree that the "balance" has gotten out of hand. Removing content, instead of fixing said content (squadai) is lazy and should always be avoided.
To everybody who thinks changing around stats and balancing things is hard; Its not. The attributes are actually quite easy to change and add onto, if you know what you're doing.

Agreed.

Community exists outside of top streamers and 1v1 players so...no.
not saying i dont appreciate the effort and using your own time for it

If players are unhappy with something in the game, they are very vocal about it, doesn't matter which game and which community, its all the same if something's wrong.

On the other hand, if players are content, they tend to stay silent and play the game instead of praising the sun and developer.

Games population is very steady over last years, so people are there.

People who complain, there is like what?
4 people who constantly complain about everything.
4-6 people who argue with them.
1 who always screeches how bad ost is and how unbeatable allies are even if it is KT facing M3 scout car, thankfully he posts only once every couple of weeks.
A 1 to 2 randoms with no more then 3 posts appearing every month only to disappear without a trace.

Official forums general discussions are active, but balance discussions went pretty much silent with last patch.

Steam forums look exactly like .org described above, instead of 1 complainer they have 1 hardcore troll who just spams useless threads.

So again, where is that "wider unhappy community"?

So again, where is that "wider unhappy community"?

Dont forget about the silent majority. I know alot of people who, instead of being vocal and/or complaining, will just leave quietly if they dont like a change. Dont quote me on this, but from my experience, I would say the game's population is currently being held up by new players from china.

Dont forget about the silent majority. I know alot of people who, instead of being vocal and/or complaining, will just leave quietly if they dont like a change.

Because the discussion does not work. And I know a big bunch of people who love the game, but left the forum because the discussions are not working. And you can see it myself, I spoke above about the Conscipts and the Soviet airborne troops, but these things are simply ignored.

And you can see it myself, I spoke above about the Conscipts and the Soviet airborne troops, but these things are simply ignored.

Such remarks have not been ignored. They have been taken into consideration and have been dismissed, either only internally or also externally. There's a big difference.

There's also a ton of feedback and suggestions from the forums or other sources that did make it into the changes. For example:
- forum suggestion: passive UI icon being added to elite weapons such as elite bazookas to communicate to the player that the squad uses an enhanced version of the weapon;
- forum and YouTube feedback: moving accuracy for vehicle holds (WC-51, M3, etc.) at 0.3 was too much, it will be changed to 0.4 in the final patch;
- multiple forum suggestions about giving Rangers an AT package. Now elite bazookas have been enabled on Rangers;
- forum feedback suggested that the M4 Sherman Dozer package was too lackluster. Now the ability also gives WP shells and extra armor;
- feedback on Ostheer Panzer IVJ suggested to put it in T4 as well as T3, which has now been enabled;
- complaints/worries about sprinting and Panzerschreck Fusiliers have been taken into consideration and their passive sprint as adjusted, and Tactical Movement has been replaced;
- forum feedback on Ostheer's Observation Bunker suggested that the bunker didn't really fit in with the commander's theme, so based on forum suggestions it was changed to a mobile package for the Sdkfz.251.
- do I need to go on?


To be precise I know what you asked for. A DP-28 upgrade on Cons, which was dismissed because an LMG weapon upgrade would be bad for gameplay, boring and not as thematic. Then you suggested a straight up Cons Mosins buff upgrade, which was dismissed because it would overlap with Penals, player communication issues, etc. For Soviet Paratroopers you wanted - among stuff that was impossible to implement - demo charges so they could take out howitzers. Which was dismissed because they already have a lot of different abilities, tools and weapons.

Community exists outside of top streamers and 1v1 players so...no.
not saying i dont appreciate the effort and using your own time for it

Fantastic idea, let’s have the steam community from the steam forums balance the game. I’m sure codguy and Trigon will have amazing insight into how to make the game better.

They care enough to keep the servers running and to let the community continue to work on and improve their game. I'd say that's pretty damn great and more than I'd ever expect from a 5 (almost 6) year old game.

I don't know, the bottom line for me is that they had the game in a relatively unbalanced state, then fucked off and said "we can't spare the developmental effort to balance this game any longer, so how about you guys do the work for us?"

Case in point is when you buy a car, you paid the dealership or whatever so you take it and drive it, you don't have to thank them so the damn thing keeps running, get the hell out with that logic.

That's a pretty bad analogy... a REALLY bad analogy. You literally have to constantly pay to get a car serviced to keep it running. You pay up front for the car (which in your case is your 200 dollars), then you have to pay for replacement tires, oil changes, tire rotations, general servicing, etc. I don't know how you could possibly think buying and maintaining a car is LESS of a "product as a service" than anything else is. You basically just named the quintessential example...

Dont forget about the silent majority. I know alot of people who, instead of being vocal and/or complaining, will just leave quietly if they dont like a change. Dont quote me on this, but from my experience, I would say the game's population is currently being held up by new players from china.

He's arguing the silent majority is relatively satisfied with the game, and you're arguing the silent majority is not. I mean, I also know a lot of people that enjoy the game, and instead of being vocal and/or expressing their satisfaction, will just quietly continue playing. These things are completely anecdotal. The only actual measure we have is player numbers which, without any other context, indicate a constant playerbase. As you recognized, it could be artifical inflation from chinese players, but that supposition is also based on anecdotal evidence. Based on anyone's best guess, the player base seems relatively stable (and not just constant in number).

If players are unhappy with something in the game, they are very vocal about it, doesn't matter which game and which community, its all the same if something's wrong.

On the other hand, if players are content, they tend to stay silent and play the game instead of praising the sun and developer.

Games population is very steady over last years, so people are there.

People who complain, there is like what?
4 people who constantly complain about everything.
4-6 people who argue with them.
1 who always screeches how bad ost is and how unbeatable allies are even if it is KT facing M3 scout car, thankfully he posts only once every couple of weeks.
A 1 to 2 randoms with no more then 3 posts appearing every month only to disappear without a trace.

Official forums general discussions are active, but balance discussions went pretty much silent with last patch.

Steam forums look exactly like .org described above, instead of 1 complainer they have 1 hardcore troll who just spams useless threads.

So again, where is that "wider unhappy community"?

You call it the silent majority since most people don't really care that much or just leave..and we can go to the steam forums instantly and take a gander at the unhappy people or even there. or do you really think the circlejerk of maybe 10 people who actually play the game here represent the average 5k players daily..? Dropped from a huge peak there too i wonder why..
Feedback is not listened to a lot of the time it feels like . Do you think the casual dad gamers will go and post here or even steam forums if they dont like something ? ...no they just leave or dont care enough and accept it even though they dont like it ...i dont know a single person from my friend circle who is actually happy with the game especially bigger modes..but yes now u will just say u cant balance bigger modes but there isnt even an attempt to fix the glaring issues or the cancer meta that has dominated it for the longest time..and theres a lot of things people are vocal about but never changed? Even last patch people were not happy with 7 man or the maxim band-aid but they still were pushed through without real consideration..go play 3v3 or 2v2 and mostly u will see pathfinder spam and i wonder why that is...Overwatch is still the OKW go-to with their jägers/lefh and skill planes at only 50 muni more (dont quote me on that) than the inferior 200 muni UKF strafe..and since we are on topic...im sure people have been very very vocal about volks aswell..IR Halftrack..ah spec ops flares i saw a lot of threads about..Soviet AA..CMD panther and heavy call-ins in general...penals...but yeah fact is most people wont go off of their way to be vocal or whine or dont have the option to do it in a proper manner and it wont be listened to properly anyhow so why bother? Oh also how is comet doing and hammer? How about the abundance of bugs like Soviet flares?

let me just remind me about the abundance of trolls,griefers and AFKERS that go unpunished most of the time too. And what is even the answer you get? "dont play team modes without premade and suck it up nerd" how unhealthy is that and just vile
The fact that bigger game modes have more players and where majority is situated in but only tournie streamer life matters and what they have to say..and u can just go to this sites balance forum alone and take a look at the threads and especially older ones that never were listened to at all
Inbefore -we listen to your feedback we just dont care- thats the same as it not being listened..

Tl;dr most people dont care or have the opportunity to whine, feedback isnt in reality listened to and people are vocal really, team modes are ignored

in reality none of this matters because coh 2 is not my life but its just pretentious to act like the game is in somehow a good state and its only sunshine and rainbows in the coh land.
My Significant other and other friends have asked me many times if im masochistic and why i keep playing this game and the answer is:there just isnt anything better out on the market. if there was coh 2 would be dead long time ago but its the only game filling that niche

Because the discussion does not work. And I know a big bunch of people who love the game, but left the forum because the discussions are not working. And you can see it myself, I spoke above about the Conscipts and the Soviet airborne troops, but these things are simply ignored.

What do you mean when you say they're not "working?" If the goal is to be heard, then the discussions are absolutely working. You were very clearly heard on your conscript and airborne feedback too. So if that (being heard) isn't the goal, what actually is it?

I don't know, the bottom line for me is that they had the game in a relatively unbalanced state, then fucked off and said "we can't spare the developmental effort to balance this game any longer, so how about you guys do the work for us?"


That's a pretty bad analogy... a REALLY bad analogy. You literally have to constantly pay to get a car serviced to keep it running. You pay up front for the car (which in your case is your 200 dollars), then you have to pay for replacement tires, oil changes, tire rotations, general servicing, etc. I don't know how you could possibly think buying and maintaining a car is LESS of a "product as a service" than anything else is. You basically just named the quintessential example...


He's arguing the silent majority is relatively satisfied with the game, and you're arguing the silent majority is not. I mean, I also know a lot of people that enjoy the game, and instead of being vocal and/or expressing their satisfaction, will just quietly continue playing. These things are completely anecdotal. The only actual measure we have is player numbers which, without any other context, indicate a constant playerbase. As you recognized, it could be artifical inflation from chinese players, but that supposition is also based on anecdotal evidence. Based on anyone's best guess, the player base seems relatively stable (and not just constant in number).

Hold up hold up here, Sander was talking about us having to be thankful to Relic for keeping the servers up which is complete and utter garbage to me when all older games do not require a main server to keep playing while I'm guessing CoH2 does.

That's not the same as saying that buying a car does not require you to maintain it, I said that I won't be thankful to the dealership from which I bought it from in order them to grace me to continue to be able to drive it.

So in short, even if Relic and their server is no more I expect to be able to play against the AI at least in offline mode and possibly against others using a peer-to-peer service like hamachi or GameRanger and LAN, if not as Ross says in the video I posted, it's FRAUD.

I pay up money up front for a product, I expect it to work as long as I maintain it which includes modern software for entertainment such as games, in the specific case meaning CoH2. If Relic or SEGA holds me to only being able to play the game while their servers are up that's deliberate sabotage of their product and can be sued on those grounds in the US and as Ross said there have been such cases.

Hold up hold up here, Sander was talking about us having to be thankful to Relic for keeping the servers up which is complete and utter garbage to me when all older games do not require a main server to keep playing while I'm guessing CoH2 does.

That's not the same as saying that buying a car does not require you to maintain it, I said that I won't be thankful to the dealership from which I bought it from in order them to grace me to continue to be able to drive it.

So in short, even if Relic and their server is no more I expect to be able to play against the AI at least in offline mode and possibly against others using a peer-to-peer service like hamachi or GameRanger and LAN, if not as Ross says in the video I posted, it's FRAUD.

I pay up money up front for a product, I expect it to work as long as I maintain it which includes modern software for entertainment such as games, in the specific case meaning CoH2. If Relic or SEGA holds me to only being able to play the game while their servers are up that's deliberate sabotage of their product and can be sued on those grounds in the US and as Ross said there have been such cases.

Given you can play coh2 offline without an internet connection, I doubt that applies.

Also, I think you're taking sander's part about thankfulness too literally... You don't have to be thankful to keep driving the car that you bought, and you don't have to be thankful for relic to keep running the servers.

If there is a car analogy thats at least tangentially appropriate, it would be that buying a car does not mean you are allowed to drive it (and drive it forever). You need a driver's license for that. You are not entitled to a driver's license, and that driver's license can be taken away.

Buying coh2 does not mean you are allowed to play online forever. You need relic servers for that. Relic doesnt not eternally owe you running servers.

Basically: buying a car means you can look at it and own it, just like buying coh2 means that you can play offline and own a copy of the game. Having a driver's license means you can drive that car, and having relic servers means that you can play online. You are not entitled to that stuff in the previous sentence just because you made a purchase. Those are technically privileges (and not privileges I would personally say you should be made to feel thankful for).

Hold up hold up here, Sander was talking about us having to be thankful to Relic for keeping the servers up which is complete and utter garbage to me when all older games do not require a main server to keep playing while I'm guessing CoH2 does.

That's not the same as saying that buying a car does not require you to maintain it, I said that I won't be thankful to the dealership from which I bought it from in order them to grace me to continue to be able to drive it.

So in short, even if Relic and their server is no more I expect to be able to play against the AI at least in offline mode and possibly against others using a peer-to-peer service like hamachi or GameRanger and LAN, if not as Ross says in the video I posted, it's FRAUD.

I pay up money up front for a product, I expect it to work as long as I maintain it which includes modern software for entertainment such as games, in the specific case meaning CoH2. If Relic or SEGA holds me to only being able to play the game while their servers are up that's deliberate sabotage of their product and can be sued on those grounds in the US and as Ross said there have been such cases.

I'm sure that in the EULA or whatever you sign up when you install the game, that they reserve the right to basically shut down the game if they feel like it whenever they want. That's for all the online features the game has.
Or that you basically don't "own" the game, you are just renting it from them or whatever.

You can rant as much as you want as how unfair and fraudulent the game industry is nowadays. The key word are "industry" and business. If you want old school type of games, your only choice are indies, and indies generally can't offer the same experience as AAA, specially in the multiplayer department.

Given you can play coh2 offline without an internet connection, I doubt that applies.

Also, I think you're taking sander's part about thankfulness too literally... You don't have to be thankful to keep driving the car that you bought, and you don't have to be thankful for relic to keep running the servers.

If there is a car analogy thats at least tangentially appropriate, it would be that buying a car does not mean you are allowed to drive it (and drive it forever). You need a driver's license for that. You are not entitled to a driver's license, and that driver's license can be taken away.

Buying coh2 does not mean you are allowed to play online forever. You need relic servers for that. Relic doesnt not eternally owe you running servers.

Basically: buying a car means you can look at it and own it, just like buying coh2 means that you can play offline and own a copy of the game. Having a driver's license means you can drive that car, and having relic servers means that you can play online. You are not entitled to that stuff in the previous sentence just because you made a purchase. Those are technically privileges (and not privileges I would personally say you should be made to feel thankful for).

Maybe the car analogy isn't a good example but still, it can be driven even if it's not road legal/worthy, just not on the road with the other cars.

And I never said that Relic owes me anything, I only said that I bought their product, that being CoH2 in this case once again, so I should be free to play it even after their servers one day shut down, again, like older games.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a software even after it's official service period has concluded, take Windows XP for example, M$ stopped supporting it back in what, like 2014? My dad still has an old IBM Laptop from 2006 installed with an original OEM Win XP and still usses to this date.

So to end this pointless argument, I bought the game so that means that I should be able to play it for as long as I want to, even if the main servers are offline, through other means such as LAN and peer-to-peer with other players or offline against bots which as you said is already possible. If not that's deliberate sabotage of the product by the maker, end of story.

I'm sure that in the EULA or whatever you sign up when you install the game, that they reserve the right to basically shut down the game if they feel like it whenever they want. That's for all the online features the game has.
Or that you basically don't "own" the game, you are just renting it from them or whatever.

You can rant as much as you want as how unfair and fraudulent the game industry is nowadays. The key word are "industry" and business. If you want old school type of games, your only choice are indies, and indies generally can't offer the same experience as AAA, specially in the multiplayer department.

I don't remember signing anything and I'm not ranting, I'm stating facts. People have been sued over this and it takes somebody to get pissed off enough to make all of this blow up in people's faces.

Also most triple A games nowdays have been a sore disappointment and more and more people, including myself, have been looking forward to Indie devs and their games which I don't agree that lack in the multiplayer department, on the contrary due to their freedom and not having a publisher such as SEGA dictate cow milking and breathing down their necks they don't have as scummy business practices and are on the market to actually make quality games instead of basically undercover money laundering operations.