KV1 and Churchill can take too much damage

The fact that Churchill is not limited to one makes it even more OP.

Well, that's your opinion you're fully entitled to, not a metric supported fact.

If you losing a Churchill to a single RF, a Pak or Stug is rather hard to achieve.

Hence, plural in the very sentence you've quoted right there.
For someone who literally balances the game based on semantics, I expected you can the difference between singular and plural in english.

Slow speed means little when it hardly provides opponent with an advantage. The unit has very fast rotation, acceleration, stock smoke, a tone of HP and high rear armor reducing the effect of the slow speed.

And then, you faust it once it reaches threshold and it literally turns into an emplacement.

The role of the KV-1 and Churchill is that of a break thru tank, it's role is not that of a hard counter to medium tanks. There are other units for that role available to the faction.

It is, therefore they have very high durability and very low potential to actually deal any damage that regular med wouldn't do.
Also, that breakthrough role means they can run towards and past ATGs and cause some chaos, yet literally no one does that.
See, this is what Sander said starts to apply - role is one thing, stats is the other, just because stats allow you to use it in certain way, doesn't mean you should or you will.

Because flanking should be rewarded in similar manner it is rewarded for other heavy tanks being flanked by mediums.

Other heavy tanks have TREMENDOUS frontal armor and main gun that no med can stand up against.
Last time I've checked, Churchills and KV-1s weren't deflecting up to 60% of ATG shots at max range nor were they penning all medium vehicles with 100% chance.

Other heavy tanks have TREMENDOUS frontal armor and main gun that no med can stand up against.
Last time I've checked, Churchills and KV-1s weren't deflecting up to 60% of ATG shots at max range nor were they penning all medium vehicles with 100% chance.

tiger has 300 frontal armor churchil has 240 kv1 270

tiger has 300 frontal armor churchil has 240 kv1 270

What about JT and Ele, which he also mentioned?
You forgot about them already?
The sentence wasn't that long.

What about JT and Ele, which he also mentioned?
You forgot about them already?
The sentence wasn't that long.

People still build JT and Ele?

What about JT and Ele, which he also mentioned?
You forgot about them already?
The sentence wasn't that long.

People still build JT and Ele?

Other heavy tanks have TREMENDOUS frontal armor and main gun that no med can stand up against.
Last time I've checked, Churchills and KV-1s weren't deflecting up to 60% of ATG shots at max range nor were they penning all medium vehicles with 100% chance.

Sure, but why does that mean that flanking shouldn't be rewarded?

People still build JT and Ele?

Team games were removed?

Sure, but why does that mean that flanking shouldn't be rewarded?

Why comparably weak frontal armor isn't a reason that a damage sponge shouldn't be a damage sponge?
Because that's the role of the unit-to take a lot of damage.

People still build JT and Ele?

Only literally every team game that isn't Ettelbruck Station.

Only literally every team game that isn't Ettelbruck Station.

I can't even remember the last time I saw a JT ingame personally, the commander is just trash tier currently in comparison to the new omega JLI air supremacy + free flares and howitzer.

Ele almost every game because again, jaegar armor is leagues ahead of most other OST doctrines. Stop making omega commanders = they don't get picked every game.

Also, who cares about 525 frontal armor when all you have to do is literally mark target + ram + IL2. Coordination among teams goes far beyond any 1 RNG based stat.

what a load of bs in this thread, 1v1's ele and jagd doesn't even get touched and i barely see them in team games.

on topic, absolutely Churchill should have its rear armour reduced to reward flanking. People need to understand axis has a harder time against tanks like Churchill because they dont have access to 60 range, high pen + high damage TD's if they did, Churchill's wouldn't be an issue.

So for god sake stop comparing the rear armour of a kt to it

Meat shield tanks are the exact reason that some TD units should have deflection damage....

Reducing the rear armour of the church might be in order, but I think it should remain above average as a ratio to front armour. The thing is slow as hell, for a uniy that is supposed to be in the front you will kill it right off like the KT if you lower it too much. Maybe tone down it's health to 1280 to compensate for the above average rear armour but again, it's speed and role warrant a bit more durability than average.

Elefant is super common in large team games (spotting scopes on an elefant, name am more iconic duo etc.), Jagdtiger less so because most OKW players almost always go go spec ops, fortification, or overwatch, rare occasion for elite armor.

I imagine after pfusiliers get buffed, that commander will see more use since it's an amazing late game unit in a map like red ball express.

Though I see elefant in 2v2s too depending on map.

So for god sake stop comparing the rear armour of a kt to it

Why do you think KT should survive med tank shots into rear if church or KV1 gets put on par?

Surely players should be rewarded for flanking a long ranger high armor unit

The churchill is the most overpowered tank in the game and anyone that says otherwise is nothing but a fanboy.

The churchill is the most overpowered tank in the game and anyone that says otherwise is nothing but a fanboy.

How constructive.

I'd say the HE Sherman is substantially stronger factoring price and timing.

Why do you think KT should survive med tank shots into rear if church or KV1 gets put on par?

The King Tiger has a lot of other significant traits, such as a very good gun and very high front armor. It needs to have a significant weakness to be balanced, which (besides mobility) is its low rear armor.

The Churchill however is nothing but a box of armor and health, so it should excell at least in those two charactaristics. Its significant weakness (again besides mobility) is its mediocre gun.

The King Tiger has a lot of other significant traits, such as a very good gun and very high front armor. It needs to have a significant weakness to be balanced, which (besides mobility) is its low rear armor.

The Churchill however is nothing but a box of armor and health, so it should excell at least in those two charactaristics. Its significant weakness (again besides mobility) is its mediocre gun.

yet we dont see any KT op threads, because KT gets countered easily by td's where as axis TD's struggle vs churchills

Hope the coming stug buff will scare off Churchill, kv and is tanks for ost.
Though going stug will heavily delay t4 anti infantry brumbar or pwafer. Like i feel, ost is in a delicate unforgiving situation. Ost doesn't have the arsenal to breach allies who dig in late games

yes but tiger and panther have lower rear armor, hell the is 2 has less rear armor than kv1

The tiger has a great gun, it can stay at range and be effective. Same with the panther on at duty. They dont have to expose themselfs to flanks, their rear armour is lower to give them a weaknes against flanking mediums.
The is2 is meant to smash through the lines. It has slow rof but amazing front armour. The lower rear armour is to give a weaknes to flanking tanks.

All the kv and churchill have is hp and armour, they dont have a range or dps advantidge, no speed advantidge.

So yes a bit higher rear armour is justified for soaking up damage is their job. And not just give free xp.

A casual reminder that the Churchill has to be close enough to throw grenades and with enemies on both sides of it in order to be getting peak efficiency out of it.

Flanks on a Tiger require pushes or dives and are very rewarding.

Flanks on a Churchill require next to nothing. Your fausting infantry can usually get one.


(Unless said church is hanging back, in which case it is a supremely expensive and pop cap heavy cromwell, so hardly worth the expense.)

The unit's design, role and very short range firepower are why it has high rear armour. But still substantially lower than its front.

What about JT and Ele, which he also mentioned?
You forgot about them already?
The sentence wasn't that long.

i compared them to heavy tanks not TD