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russian armor

Rebirth of the Sherman Jumbo idea.

7 May 2019, 13:01 PM
#41
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

There’s already two unique M4 variants in the game that barely see any use. Why would a third one make any difference?


There's 5 in total, standard M4A3 Sherman, M4A3 76(W) Sherman, M4A3 105 Sherman, M4A3E8 Sherman, and the Calliope.

This Jumbo would be a 6th variant with more armor, hp, slower and with the same 75mm gun as the standard Sherman but no shell changing, at least in my mind.

It would be easier to balance right now than the Bulldozer for Urban Assault and would provide a new and unique useful tank for the new commander that many people want, plus it arguably fits the theme better than any other unit. Of course that if you're assaulting a town you'll want to send in your most armored tank to support your infantry, and not one equipped with a bulldozer blade lol.

Also another picture of CoH models of the 76(W) Sherman and Jumbo from a mod:



Barely any difference is noticable besides the gun.
7 May 2019, 13:15 PM
#42
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



There's 5 in total, standard M4A3 Sherman, M4A3 76(W) Sherman, M4A3 105 Sherman, M4A3E8 Sherman, and the Calliope.

This Jumbo would be a 6th variant with more armor, hp, slower and with the same 75mm gun as the standard Sherman but no shell changing, at least in my mind.

It would be easier to balance right now than the Bulldozer for Urban Assault and would provide a new and unique useful tank for the new commander that many people want, plus it arguably fits the theme better than any other unit. Of course that if you're assaulting a town you'll want to send in your most armored tank to support your infantry, and not one equipped with a bulldozer blade lol.

Also another picture of CoH models of the 76(W) Sherman and Jumbo from a mod:



Barely any difference is noticable besides the gun.


That’s cool and everything, but a Heavy tank does not fit the theme of an urban assault commander. Not only is pathing in the game difficult for heavies in narrow environments, but historically attacking towns with heavy armour was not an option with all the rubble in the streets. I think the jumbo is just a case of people wanting more shiny new stuff.
7 May 2019, 13:20 PM
#43
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2



That’s cool and everything, but a Heavy tank does not fit the theme of an urban assault commander. Not only is pathing in the game difficult for heavies in narrow environments, but historically attacking towns with heavy armour was not an option with all the rubble in the streets. I think the jumbo is just a case of people wanting more shiny new stuff.


Heavy Tank? What Heavy tank? This is not a Pershing, it's an up-armored Sherman medium tank similar to the British Comet or German Panther.

Plus a heavier armored tank is going to be better at assaulting towns and supporting infantry rather than a normal medium tank with a bulldozer fitted at the front or I would arguably even say a rocket tank like the Calliope, not to even mention that the Calliope is basically a meme right now.

I mean sure the dozer Sherman could probably clear the rubble on the streets but it won't be able to frontally shrug off an 88 like the Jumbo in a realistic scenario.

And yes there is a written account of a Jumbo deflecting 3 88 rounds to it's front before a 4th one hit the gunner aim slit and disabled it.
7 May 2019, 13:25 PM
#44
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Heavy Tank? What Heavy tank? This is not a Pershing, it's an up-armored Sherman medium tank similar to the British Comet or German Panther.

Actually, if anything, its KV-1 in sherman shape. Literally.
7 May 2019, 13:33 PM
#45
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2


Actually, if anything, its KV-1 in sherman shape. Literally.


Difference is that the KV-1 is an entirely different type of tank while the Jumbo is spiritually KV-1 armor plates welded to the T-34 altho with what reports I have seen and heard of Soviet welding I doubt it would have been as effective.

Also KV-1 ate 88 fire and it got destroyed, meanwhile the Jumbo like I said frontally shrugged off 88 shells for the most part because it had more than double the KV-1's armor unless they hit a microscopic weak spot in the armor, like the gunner vision slit.

There are written reports on the internet for whoever doesn't believe me, like this one: http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/m4a3e2-jumbo-assault-tank

Just press ctrl + f and search for "88" on the page and you will find what I'm talking about.

It's a really detailed look at the Jumbo and even lists reports of in-field modifications and up-armoring of regular 76 Shermans and E8s by cutting bits and pieces of destroyed tanks and welding them to the front.
7 May 2019, 13:58 PM
#46
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

This almost-Jumbo convinces me more than those Airborne Guards arriving with smoke. :thumbsup:
7 May 2019, 13:59 PM
#47
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

This almost-Jumbo convinces me more than those Airborne Guards arriving with smoke. :thumbsup:


Yep, also another interesting page report I forgot about also adding details to the Jumbo's story: http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a3e2jumbo/m4a3e2.html

Both links are some nice reads for those interested in my opinion.
7 May 2019, 15:16 PM
#48
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

i've been telling this for many months, US needs Panther a'lke tank and IMO the Jumbo is the best option, kind of less firepower but armour is still at Panthers level
7 May 2019, 15:20 PM
#49
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

There’s already two unique M4 variants in the game that barely see any use. Why would a third one make any difference?


The Easy Eight is in a terrible doctrine.

The 76mm is solid but for some reason that doctrine also has a no-brainer buff to the standard Sherman that almost immediately overshadows it.

Scrap the stupid Dozer Blade upgrade and make Rifle Company good, and you'll see both.
7 May 2019, 15:24 PM
#50
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260



This is the CoH model from mods:



Like I said, you can barely notice the extra slabs of armor unless you zoom all the way in and even then it's hard to distinguish.

The shorter 75mm gun in the 76 gun turret is the biggest visual communication.

Of course the 76mm gun equipped Sherman Jumbo in CoH's mods are a little hard to distinguish from the regular 76mm Sherman as well unless they're right next to each othere where you notice that one of the 2 is thicc boi.


You know, I'm not entirely certain those slabs are modelled on that Jumbo. It might just be clever texturing, like the gaps in the treads.
7 May 2019, 15:28 PM
#51
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2019, 15:24 PMLago


You know, I'm not entirely certain those slabs are modelled on that Jumbo. It might just be clever texturing, like the gaps in the treads.


There's a few other pictures google came up with along with the 2 I posted here but it's the same thing I keep saying, unless you zoom in really close the only thing you're going to notice is the barrel length difference.
7 May 2019, 15:31 PM
#52
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

i've been telling this for many months, US needs Panther a'lke tank and IMO the Jumbo is the best option, kind of less firepower but armour is still at Panthers level

You mean like the Easy8 ?

Panther armor
Armor: 260/90

Easy8 armor
Armor: 215/95

Dozer armor
Armor: 200/80

Pershing armor

Armor: 300/110

New Upgrades dozer Sherman
Armor: 215/105

edited after request:
KV-1
Armor: 270/165

Churchill
Armor: 240/180
7 May 2019, 15:40 PM
#53
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2019, 15:31 PMVipper

You mean like the Easy8 ?

Panther armor
Armor: 260/90

Easy8 armor
Armor: 215/95

Dozer armor
Armor: 200/80

Pershing armor

Armor: 300/110

New Upgrades dozer Sherman
Armor: 215/105


While we're on the subject matter, can you also post the Churchill and KV1 armor specs?
ddd
7 May 2019, 15:41 PM
#54
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2019, 15:31 PMVipper

You mean like the Easy8 ?

Panther armor
Armor: 260/90

Easy8 armor
Armor: 215/95

Dozer armor
Armor: 200/80

Pershing armor

Armor: 300/110

New Upgrades dozer Sherman
Armor: 215/105


How excatly is easy8 armor on the same level as panther? What would you call p4 234 armor then?

Not to mention additional 26 armor at vet 2 and 960 hp, which gives us 286 armor 960hp vs 215 armor 720hp, how is that comparable?

But i like the idea of turning easy8 into "panther like" tank, needs AT LEAST 240 armor and 800hp.
7 May 2019, 15:49 PM
#55
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Just don't give it churchill health AND armor.
7 May 2019, 15:50 PM
#56
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2019, 15:41 PMddd


How excatly is easy8 armor on the same level as panther? What would you call p4 234 armor then?

Not to mention additional 26 armor at vet 2 and 960 hp, which gives us 286 armor 960hp vs 215 armor 720hp, how is that comparable?

But i like the idea of turning easy8 into "panther like" tank, needs AT LEAST 240 armor and 800hp.


Sure, but then its ai abilities need to be towed down to Panther level :)
ddd
7 May 2019, 15:54 PM
#57
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1



Sure, but then its ai abilities need to be towed down to Panther level :)


Thats a good idea, i was thinking about replacing its smoke barrage with WP shell, so it would have to rely on using WP + MG to deal with infantry.

It should also be faster and have better rate of fire, acting more like a dedicated tank hunter.
7 May 2019, 15:58 PM
#58
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

Just don't give it churchill health AND armor.


Well it had around 4 inches of Armor on the front of the hull so that would put it a bit under the Pershing's Armor I guess, that would probably roughtly translate to a bit under the Panther's Armor in game I suppose. But I definitely don't think it will have as much health as the KV1 or Churchill.
7 May 2019, 16:15 PM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2019, 15:41 PMddd


How excatly is easy8 armor on the same level as panther? What would you call p4 234 armor then?

Not to mention additional 26 armor at vet 2 and 960 hp, which gives us 286 armor 960hp vs 215 armor 720hp, how is that comparable?

But i like the idea of turning easy8 into "panther like" tank, needs AT LEAST 240 armor and 800hp.

The fuel and tech cost difference put them at the same level.

Tell you what since you think Easy is bad tank lets clone PzIV to be Easy close and see how bad it actually is.
ddd
7 May 2019, 16:19 PM
#60
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2019, 16:15 PMVipper

The fuel and tech cost difference put them at the same level.


The fuk? What does that even mean?

Does the fuel and tech cost difference between sherman and king tiger put them at the same level too?

Thats some next lebel thinking right there.

Tell you what since you think Easy is bad tank lets clone PzIV to be Easy close and see how bad it actually is.


I dont think its necessarily bad, just redundant. USF doesnt need more generalist medium tanks, it has 75mm and 76mm already.
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